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Author Topic:   Early attacks

eborg posted 04-15-99 10:49 AM ET
Hi, my question: How early in the game will an AI player attack ?
I am playing my first game on transcendent, AI not set to agressive, I play PKs builder style, it's MY2130, I have a nice land nearby (Monsoon Jungle). Fine.
Only trouble: Santiago is on the same continent. As soon as I turned to Democracy (I'm the PKs, after all), she declared vendetta. And she's leading in military! (Can't see her bases yet, only met her rovers.) I don't wanna build lots of military units and pay for all the support before I really need them. Question is: how much time will I have before I need to get up heavy military ? Will she go for me before MY2150 ? Will it impress her if I send out a 2-2-2 rover ?
Plato90s posted 04-15-99 11:06 AM ET
I've had conflicts with enemy factions immediately upon meeting. There has been games when I saw The Hive move at least 30 units around, about 75 turns into the game.
Ghost posted 04-15-99 12:28 PM ET
How much your tech impresses her really depends on where she is, but unless she is really choked for land expansion and for some reason hasn't gotten doctrine: flex by 130 years into the game she's going to have a lot better than 2-2-2 rovers (in fact, I just can't think of a way that Santiago wouldn't have better than that by 130 years in...), and they'll be able to smack you around with their morale bonuses, too.
I would probably switch off Democratic if at all possible for the duration of the war. -2 Support during wartime really sucks away a lot of your ability to keep producing units, and if you are already behind then you need all the help you can get. If you have social engineering options suitable for war, I would suggest going to them (Planned for the industry bonus, Power once you are actually engaging Santiago's troops... the 10% industry bonus isn't that bad from Planned + Power, and it still will allow you to produce units at the same rate as Santiago, with roughly equal morale if she hasn;t pumped that, and with a +2 support which will really help your production efforts a lot once you have a lot of units out there).
You are at a real disadvantage, going to war against the Spartans (arguably the best balanced war faction, along with the Hive for rough defenses and the Believers for rough offense and probes) with the Peacekeepers. Hopefully you have used your superior expansion abilities to allow you to outproduce and outtech her, at which point you should consider totally wiping her out (or at least forcing her to submit and then taking away a lot of her bases, especially any which have special projects, so that you maintain an ally for voting, which is necessary for use with your veto, a commerce partner, and someone who can be producing different techs, while keeping her small enough that she will never revolt). If it looks like it could go either way and she offers a truce, you might want to take it, but generally speaking gaining total control over your continent is the key to victory at any level of play. Once you have a bastion continent which is difficult to penetrate (be sure to put probe teams in any coastal bases if you can afford it) then you can proceed to spread inexorably outward from that point.
--Ghost
Avaunt posted 04-15-99 12:44 PM ET
In this situation, You would be wise to switch your research and production to a military stance and go on the offensive full force. Half measures and delaying actions are a bad idea as it is time and resource consuming and odds are eventually you will be forced to confront the Spartans.
If conflict is inevitable hit them fast with all you can muster. Get them down to surrendering and decide if their worth keeping as a puppet state.
I usually keep them around for two reasons. First if you finish them off, its very early in the game, and they escape in a colony pod, it is possible they will recover and can be a future threat that you will never have good political relations with. Second, If you give them all your research and feed them future discoveries you can capitalize on their independant research as they will give you what they learn. If they have good research turn around you can effectively double your discoveries and gain quite a tech advantage. Not to mention, they will give you a counsel vote you can count on.

trippin daily posted 04-15-99 04:12 PM ET
There is a TI thread way down in the depths somewher which talks about how the AI responds to certain things.... Build several of your highest tech rovers, find her bases, move them into the territory, do some minor damage first... improvements, terraformers, destroy the easy stuff... then try talking to her... if that doesn't work, then take one of her bases... then she will almost undoubtably listen to you... and have at least 3 r 4 rovers in her territory, the ai pays attention to offensive units in its territory when considering whether r not to sue for peace.
JAMiAM posted 04-15-99 04:19 PM ET
Ghost,
Good advice. Just one little problem. eborg is in MY2130. Game starts MY2101. Hence, he is only 30 turns into it, not 130.
JAMiAM
Ghost posted 04-15-99 06:12 PM ET
Yep... I hoped to get back and amend that before anyone else noticed. I was in class and all of a sudden it came to me... its one of my biggest AC mind farts, and I just can't seem to get it through my head that the game starts in 2100.
--Ghost of Centuries Past
K posted 04-15-99 07:17 PM ET
You possessed the answer grasshopper, but you do not see it.
NEVER SOCIAL ENGINEER IN A TRANSCEND GAME UNTIL YOU HAVE CONQUERED/DESTROYED ALL SERIOUS THREATS ON YOU CONTINENT.
Why? Because the AI payers get pissed, and start comong for you during Turn 30 before you are ready for a war. I know that SE is sweet, but it's a liability in Transcend level games where all of your displomatic, war, building, and exploring skills are put to the test.
eborg posted 04-16-99 05:06 AM ET
Hi all,
thanx for the tips.
I lost my freshly built rovers against Santiago (her morale is just better).
I will use this as a training game and go back to a saved game from before the switch to Democracy.
Then I will follows K's advice and wait with social engineering.
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Author	Topic: Early attacks
eborg	posted 04-15-99 10:49 AM ET Hi, my question: How early in the game will an AI player attack ? I am playing my first game on transcendent, AI not set to agressive, I play PKs builder style, it's MY2130, I have a nice land nearby (Monsoon Jungle). Fine. Only trouble: Santiago is on the same continent. As soon as I turned to Democracy (I'm the PKs, after all), she declared vendetta. And she's leading in military! (Can't see her bases yet, only met her rovers.) I don't wanna build lots of military units and pay for all the support before I really need them. Question is: how much time will I have before I need to get up heavy military ? Will she go for me before MY2150 ? Will it impress her if I send out a 2-2-2 rover ?
Plato90s	posted 04-15-99 11:06 AM ET I've had conflicts with enemy factions immediately upon meeting. There has been games when I saw The Hive move at least 30 units around, about 75 turns into the game.
Ghost	posted 04-15-99 12:28 PM ET How much your tech impresses her really depends on where she is, but unless she is really choked for land expansion and for some reason hasn't gotten doctrine: flex by 130 years into the game she's going to have a lot better than 2-2-2 rovers (in fact, I just can't think of a way that Santiago wouldn't have better than that by 130 years in...), and they'll be able to smack you around with their morale bonuses, too. I would probably switch off Democratic if at all possible for the duration of the war. -2 Support during wartime really sucks away a lot of your ability to keep producing units, and if you are already behind then you need all the help you can get. If you have social engineering options suitable for war, I would suggest going to them (Planned for the industry bonus, Power once you are actually engaging Santiago's troops... the 10% industry bonus isn't that bad from Planned + Power, and it still will allow you to produce units at the same rate as Santiago, with roughly equal morale if she hasn;t pumped that, and with a +2 support which will really help your production efforts a lot once you have a lot of units out there). You are at a real disadvantage, going to war against the Spartans (arguably the best balanced war faction, along with the Hive for rough defenses and the Believers for rough offense and probes) with the Peacekeepers. Hopefully you have used your superior expansion abilities to allow you to outproduce and outtech her, at which point you should consider totally wiping her out (or at least forcing her to submit and then taking away a lot of her bases, especially any which have special projects, so that you maintain an ally for voting, which is necessary for use with your veto, a commerce partner, and someone who can be producing different techs, while keeping her small enough that she will never revolt). If it looks like it could go either way and she offers a truce, you might want to take it, but generally speaking gaining total control over your continent is the key to victory at any level of play. Once you have a bastion continent which is difficult to penetrate (be sure to put probe teams in any coastal bases if you can afford it) then you can proceed to spread inexorably outward from that point. --Ghost
Avaunt	posted 04-15-99 12:44 PM ET In this situation, You would be wise to switch your research and production to a military stance and go on the offensive full force. Half measures and delaying actions are a bad idea as it is time and resource consuming and odds are eventually you will be forced to confront the Spartans. If conflict is inevitable hit them fast with all you can muster. Get them down to surrendering and decide if their worth keeping as a puppet state. I usually keep them around for two reasons. First if you finish them off, its very early in the game, and they escape in a colony pod, it is possible they will recover and can be a future threat that you will never have good political relations with. Second, If you give them all your research and feed them future discoveries you can capitalize on their independant research as they will give you what they learn. If they have good research turn around you can effectively double your discoveries and gain quite a tech advantage. Not to mention, they will give you a counsel vote you can count on.
trippin daily	posted 04-15-99 04:12 PM ET There is a TI thread way down in the depths somewher which talks about how the AI responds to certain things.... Build several of your highest tech rovers, find her bases, move them into the territory, do some minor damage first... improvements, terraformers, destroy the easy stuff... then try talking to her... if that doesn't work, then take one of her bases... then she will almost undoubtably listen to you... and have at least 3 r 4 rovers in her territory, the ai pays attention to offensive units in its territory when considering whether r not to sue for peace.
JAMiAM	posted 04-15-99 04:19 PM ET Ghost, Good advice. Just one little problem. eborg is in MY2130. Game starts MY2101. Hence, he is only 30 turns into it, not 130. JAMiAM
Ghost	posted 04-15-99 06:12 PM ET Yep... I hoped to get back and amend that before anyone else noticed. I was in class and all of a sudden it came to me... its one of my biggest AC mind farts, and I just can't seem to get it through my head that the game starts in 2100. --Ghost of Centuries Past
K	posted 04-15-99 07:17 PM ET You possessed the answer grasshopper, but you do not see it. NEVER SOCIAL ENGINEER IN A TRANSCEND GAME UNTIL YOU HAVE CONQUERED/DESTROYED ALL SERIOUS THREATS ON YOU CONTINENT. Why? Because the AI payers get pissed, and start comong for you during Turn 30 before you are ready for a war. I know that SE is sweet, but it's a liability in Transcend level games where all of your displomatic, war, building, and exploring skills are put to the test.
eborg	posted 04-16-99 05:06 AM ET Hi all, thanx for the tips. I lost my freshly built rovers against Santiago (her morale is just better). I will use this as a training game and go back to a saved game from before the switch to Democracy. Then I will follows K's advice and wait with social engineering.