Faction comparisons, frequently dominating/loosing when controlled by AI

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Author Topic:   Faction comparisons, frequently dominating/loosing when controlled by AI

EEder posted 04-08-99 12:15 AM ET
Most of the games I play are on mid-range difficulty (although it is fun to play on easy now and then and no have to worry about prototypes.. ) and I have noticed a few things that seem to be recurring.
MORGANITES
1 - Morgans suck. For your info, I downloaded the v3.0 upgrade, but they still are hampered HEAVILY.
A) The morgans tend to want to build a small number of cities (2-4) and be "quality instead of quantity." But due to the fact that they can't have above a 4 population, they tend to have 2-4 cities that are weak to midrange.
B) Free Market Economy sucks. We all know this, its just plain illogical to do. There is no benefit to it! Thats an exaduration obviously, but +2 effic (or econ, I forget) doesn't outweigh the -5 and -3. Again, morgans always go for FME, this also hampers them.
C) Morgan's a jerk It seems that he's frequently unwilling to commit to treaties (although he is a good bank) and his military is terrible. He thinks he's more powerful than he is.
BELIEVERS
2 - Believers - Holy god, I believe!! The Believers are ALWAYS one of the top factions when I play. Its gotta be because of the +25% attacking, thats such an incredible bonus.
B) Also, Miriam is VERY willing to go to war with everyone. She rarely likes anyone else (primarily because nobody ever is on fundamentalism unless your locked in a land war, and she is on fundamentalism).
C) she expands like crazy! If she's not taking over other cities, she's building more of her own (ideally, thats what you should always be doing, but she does it unusually more than the others).
THE UNIVERSITY
A) They usually do pretty well during the opening few (10-20) turns of the game, due to their initial tech bonus, but once they come in contact with other factions, the other factions can usually over power them. because of this, the University tends to do better on large maps.
THE PEACEKEEPERS
1- Well balanced. They expand and defend themselves well enough to be about par with most of the other factions, but because he gets double election votes, he's usually double everyone else.
B) Also, he's a nice guy he'll usually be willing to sign a treaty with people, which is nice.
GAIANS
A) Probably my fav faction to play, and usually do very well when controlled by the AI. They make great use of mind worms to fend themsevles off in the begining from the Believers and Spartans, and can hold their own in the late game.
B) Deidre is a nice chick too
SPARTANS
A) The spartans are a surprising and seemingly dynamic faction. Sometimes I see them doing VERY well, dominating all the power charts, and other times they seem really isolated.
B) Col. Santiago is pretty icy. she usually isn't commital at all, but if you give her some tech it seems to make her more... reasonable.
HUMAN HIVE
A) Really good. They are almost always a power. They expand fast, can defend easily thanks to the automatic Perimeter defenses. B) And for some reason, they are always building units. Unlike most factions, who build lots of city improvements, the Hive is always stock-piling units. This makes them a very formadible military force in the end game.

Opinins and comments welcomed
-EEder

Plato90s posted 04-08-99 05:37 PM ET
A few more observations.......
------------------------- Believers -------------------------
This is a faction you need to either stamp out early, or make sure you confine her to an island or something. Miriam builds an unbelievable number of units, and her immunity to bribery is damn annoying.
------------------------- University -------------------------
The danger of University is if they get to Particle Impacter before you get at least Plasma steel, you are in some serious pain. I've seen games where the UoP went on an absolute rampage [which I emulate in my own games] once they get PI or Missles.
In the long game, the UoP is rarely a dangerous enemy, as they don't seem to expand enough militarity.
------------------------- Gaia's Stepdaughters -------------------------
Gaians are really nice to befriend in the beginning, but be careful. In the long term, she's very dangerous because the Gaians build good bases and good improvements. Preferably, you want to conquer them shortly after you get Chaos Gun, because letting the Gaians build Mature Boils or Demon Boils is definitely not a good idea.
Mergle posted 04-09-99 01:11 PM ET
Just a quick point - I totally agree that Morgan sucks, but its not because of Free Market - he just doesn't know how to use it.
I have this awful fear that Firaxis is going to hear these complaints about Free Market and reduce the penalties or something. This would be a mistake! Free Market is the most amazing social choice in the game. Its only drawback is that it limits you to fighting wars carefully (make sure you only do alpha-strikes to take out the next city and so expand your borders, avoiding police problems, or use punishment spheres etc.). For that, it gives you +1 energy every square!!!!! This is phenominal!
JB posted 04-14-99 01:18 AM ET
Current Game:
Allied:
Gaians: Since beginning. Great allies. Which is good, because she was the dominant faction for quite a while. However, she seems to get PMS, suddenly announcing, for no apparent reason, that she hates my faction and wants to cancel the pact.
Peacekeepers: Since beginning. Stopped for a short while, due to two incidents of Probe activities.
Morgan: VERY WEAK. However, good allies. I sort of feel a great need to 'watch over' them.

Treaty:
Spartans: Sort of an on-off alliance. I don't think she likes me very much, but doesn't want to go to war.

Vendetta:
Believers: Took over most of Planet in MY 2340. I wiped her out, with a little help from the Gaians, in MY 2399.
Hive: Basically isolated for most of game. Then he declared war on the Gaians and PK and Morganites. He took over several Gaian bases, plus one Morganite base. I accepted the PKs offer for war in 2410, and eraticated him in 2425.
At this time I was the dominant faction, and had almost every secret project. I was elected Supreme Ruler. I then reloaded the game and acheived an Economic Victory. I then reloaded and killed the other factions. Fianlly, I Trancended.
Morgans: Weak (Very)
Gaians: Powerfull
Believers: Powerfull
Hive: Moderate
Peacekeepers: Moderate (Powerfull near end)
Spartans: Weak (moderate near end)
Schoop posted 04-14-99 12:57 PM ET
What am I hearing here?? Morgan sucks??
He's my favorite faction to play!
I admit, the AI doesn't play Morgan well, often going to war when it shouldn't and never building enough bases. The proper strategy with Morgan is to expand peacefully, reaping the full benefits from as much Commerce as you can get. Build a lot of bases, and defend them! Under FME, Morgan's research can surpass the University, and still have enough left over for a decent Psych output and turning a tidy profit.
Goobmeister posted 04-14-99 02:42 PM ET
Morgan, with one sad notable exception has done decently as AI in my games, yes he falls apart as soon as he goes to war with a human (that's me, I guess) opponent. In the sad exception he was still sending his green laser infantry up against my Commando Shard squads and Shard rovers. Eventually I sent 1 Shard squad snd 1 Shard rover into his empire and with the exception of the last city where I had help from a friendly demon boil these two units took out all of his 7 or 8 cities.
The AI Gaians are always strong in my games as well as the PK's and the believers. Yang is always killed, sometimes by me and sometimes by the other factions. UoP is normally somewhat strong except this last game when he started next to my Spartans, oh well.
When the Spartans are AI they are usually pretty weak.
Over all in my major games the main fight was between whoever I was and the Gaians. The one time I played the Gaians they fought with the Believers.
Shade posted 04-14-99 05:40 PM ET
FME doesn't suck, it's just not useful in the early game, or in times of war. Since most players are constantly in a time of war . . .
In the mid-game with lots of bases and no military units away from home FME can allow you to pull WAY ahead. +1 energy per square per base or more will result in massive extra revenue and science discoveries come very quickly. If you do have to go into war you'll have more than enough money to buy enemies off or build defensive units like mad. I always switch to FME in the mid-game and the results are that I literally leap ahead of the closest rival in terms of production and research, and generally can buy almost every secret project out from under the competition. In my current game with around 40 bases I went from 350 net income and discoveries every 5-6 turns to around 1500 net income per turn and discoveries every 2 turns when I switched from Green to FME! Now the Hive's Chaos Rovers are staring down a couple dozen Behemoth Shard Hovertanks and an equally dangerous airforce. A quick switch back to Green economy and they don't stand a chance.
In the early game, though, and with only a few bases, FME simply isn't worth it. The advantage you get is easily countered at a time where mobility can be more important than building, and civil unrest can cut out 25-50% or more of your total production easily. Later in the game tons of bases will more than make up for the production loss of a few stragglers.
The problem with Morgan is that he never gets to this mid-game point, or if he does he simply doesn't own a big enough chunk of the world, or enough bases, to make FME worthwhile. One way to fix this problem, play with Morgan. It's harder in the beginning, but the benefits are astounding in the mid to late game. I still prefer the Spartans, though, and I can't quite figure out why. They just feel right.
BTW, pairing FME with the Telepathic Matrix is just sick.
Shade
Naf posted 04-15-99 09:07 PM ET
Actually free market is FAR from useless, you just have to know when to use it. And when to use it is when you're not at war.. Free market can make an energy slumped empire into a research and energy credit powerhouse.
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Author	Topic: Faction comparisons, frequently dominating/loosing when controlled by AI
EEder	posted 04-08-99 12:15 AM ET Most of the games I play are on mid-range difficulty (although it is fun to play on easy now and then and no have to worry about prototypes.. ) and I have noticed a few things that seem to be recurring. MORGANITES 1 - Morgans suck. For your info, I downloaded the v3.0 upgrade, but they still are hampered HEAVILY. A) The morgans tend to want to build a small number of cities (2-4) and be "quality instead of quantity." But due to the fact that they can't have above a 4 population, they tend to have 2-4 cities that are weak to midrange. B) Free Market Economy sucks. We all know this, its just plain illogical to do. There is no benefit to it! Thats an exaduration obviously, but +2 effic (or econ, I forget) doesn't outweigh the -5 and -3. Again, morgans always go for FME, this also hampers them. C) Morgan's a jerk It seems that he's frequently unwilling to commit to treaties (although he is a good bank) and his military is terrible. He thinks he's more powerful than he is. BELIEVERS 2 - Believers - Holy god, I believe!! The Believers are ALWAYS one of the top factions when I play. Its gotta be because of the +25% attacking, thats such an incredible bonus. B) Also, Miriam is VERY willing to go to war with everyone. She rarely likes anyone else (primarily because nobody ever is on fundamentalism unless your locked in a land war, and she is on fundamentalism). C) she expands like crazy! If she's not taking over other cities, she's building more of her own (ideally, thats what you should always be doing, but she does it unusually more than the others). THE UNIVERSITY A) They usually do pretty well during the opening few (10-20) turns of the game, due to their initial tech bonus, but once they come in contact with other factions, the other factions can usually over power them. because of this, the University tends to do better on large maps. THE PEACEKEEPERS 1- Well balanced. They expand and defend themselves well enough to be about par with most of the other factions, but because he gets double election votes, he's usually double everyone else. B) Also, he's a nice guy he'll usually be willing to sign a treaty with people, which is nice. GAIANS A) Probably my fav faction to play, and usually do very well when controlled by the AI. They make great use of mind worms to fend themsevles off in the begining from the Believers and Spartans, and can hold their own in the late game. B) Deidre is a nice chick too SPARTANS A) The spartans are a surprising and seemingly dynamic faction. Sometimes I see them doing VERY well, dominating all the power charts, and other times they seem really isolated. B) Col. Santiago is pretty icy. she usually isn't commital at all, but if you give her some tech it seems to make her more... reasonable. HUMAN HIVE A) Really good. They are almost always a power. They expand fast, can defend easily thanks to the automatic Perimeter defenses. B) And for some reason, they are always building units. Unlike most factions, who build lots of city improvements, the Hive is always stock-piling units. This makes them a very formadible military force in the end game. Opinins and comments welcomed -EEder
Plato90s	posted 04-08-99 05:37 PM ET A few more observations....... ------------------------- Believers ------------------------- This is a faction you need to either stamp out early, or make sure you confine her to an island or something. Miriam builds an unbelievable number of units, and her immunity to bribery is damn annoying. ------------------------- University ------------------------- The danger of University is if they get to Particle Impacter before you get at least Plasma steel, you are in some serious pain. I've seen games where the UoP went on an absolute rampage [which I emulate in my own games] once they get PI or Missles. In the long game, the UoP is rarely a dangerous enemy, as they don't seem to expand enough militarity. ------------------------- Gaia's Stepdaughters ------------------------- Gaians are really nice to befriend in the beginning, but be careful. In the long term, she's very dangerous because the Gaians build good bases and good improvements. Preferably, you want to conquer them shortly after you get Chaos Gun, because letting the Gaians build Mature Boils or Demon Boils is definitely not a good idea.
Mergle	posted 04-09-99 01:11 PM ET Just a quick point - I totally agree that Morgan sucks, but its not because of Free Market - he just doesn't know how to use it. I have this awful fear that Firaxis is going to hear these complaints about Free Market and reduce the penalties or something. This would be a mistake! Free Market is the most amazing social choice in the game. Its only drawback is that it limits you to fighting wars carefully (make sure you only do alpha-strikes to take out the next city and so expand your borders, avoiding police problems, or use punishment spheres etc.). For that, it gives you +1 energy every square!!!!! This is phenominal!
JB	posted 04-14-99 01:18 AM ET Current Game: Allied: Gaians: Since beginning. Great allies. Which is good, because she was the dominant faction for quite a while. However, she seems to get PMS, suddenly announcing, for no apparent reason, that she hates my faction and wants to cancel the pact. Peacekeepers: Since beginning. Stopped for a short while, due to two incidents of Probe activities. Morgan: VERY WEAK. However, good allies. I sort of feel a great need to 'watch over' them. Treaty: Spartans: Sort of an on-off alliance. I don't think she likes me very much, but doesn't want to go to war. Vendetta: Believers: Took over most of Planet in MY 2340. I wiped her out, with a little help from the Gaians, in MY 2399. Hive: Basically isolated for most of game. Then he declared war on the Gaians and PK and Morganites. He took over several Gaian bases, plus one Morganite base. I accepted the PKs offer for war in 2410, and eraticated him in 2425. At this time I was the dominant faction, and had almost every secret project. I was elected Supreme Ruler. I then reloaded the game and acheived an Economic Victory. I then reloaded and killed the other factions. Fianlly, I Trancended. Morgans: Weak (Very) Gaians: Powerfull Believers: Powerfull Hive: Moderate Peacekeepers: Moderate (Powerfull near end) Spartans: Weak (moderate near end)
Schoop	posted 04-14-99 12:57 PM ET What am I hearing here?? Morgan sucks?? He's my favorite faction to play! I admit, the AI doesn't play Morgan well, often going to war when it shouldn't and never building enough bases. The proper strategy with Morgan is to expand peacefully, reaping the full benefits from as much Commerce as you can get. Build a lot of bases, and defend them! Under FME, Morgan's research can surpass the University, and still have enough left over for a decent Psych output and turning a tidy profit.
Goobmeister	posted 04-14-99 02:42 PM ET Morgan, with one sad notable exception has done decently as AI in my games, yes he falls apart as soon as he goes to war with a human (that's me, I guess) opponent. In the sad exception he was still sending his green laser infantry up against my Commando Shard squads and Shard rovers. Eventually I sent 1 Shard squad snd 1 Shard rover into his empire and with the exception of the last city where I had help from a friendly demon boil these two units took out all of his 7 or 8 cities. The AI Gaians are always strong in my games as well as the PK's and the believers. Yang is always killed, sometimes by me and sometimes by the other factions. UoP is normally somewhat strong except this last game when he started next to my Spartans, oh well. When the Spartans are AI they are usually pretty weak. Over all in my major games the main fight was between whoever I was and the Gaians. The one time I played the Gaians they fought with the Believers.
Shade	posted 04-14-99 05:40 PM ET FME doesn't suck, it's just not useful in the early game, or in times of war. Since most players are constantly in a time of war . . . In the mid-game with lots of bases and no military units away from home FME can allow you to pull WAY ahead. +1 energy per square per base or more will result in massive extra revenue and science discoveries come very quickly. If you do have to go into war you'll have more than enough money to buy enemies off or build defensive units like mad. I always switch to FME in the mid-game and the results are that I literally leap ahead of the closest rival in terms of production and research, and generally can buy almost every secret project out from under the competition. In my current game with around 40 bases I went from 350 net income and discoveries every 5-6 turns to around 1500 net income per turn and discoveries every 2 turns when I switched from Green to FME! Now the Hive's Chaos Rovers are staring down a couple dozen Behemoth Shard Hovertanks and an equally dangerous airforce. A quick switch back to Green economy and they don't stand a chance. In the early game, though, and with only a few bases, FME simply isn't worth it. The advantage you get is easily countered at a time where mobility can be more important than building, and civil unrest can cut out 25-50% or more of your total production easily. Later in the game tons of bases will more than make up for the production loss of a few stragglers. The problem with Morgan is that he never gets to this mid-game point, or if he does he simply doesn't own a big enough chunk of the world, or enough bases, to make FME worthwhile. One way to fix this problem, play with Morgan. It's harder in the beginning, but the benefits are astounding in the mid to late game. I still prefer the Spartans, though, and I can't quite figure out why. They just feel right. BTW, pairing FME with the Telepathic Matrix is just sick. Shade
Naf	posted 04-15-99 09:07 PM ET Actually free market is FAR from useless, you just have to know when to use it. And when to use it is when you're not at war.. Free market can make an energy slumped empire into a research and energy credit powerhouse.