Frequent Factions that are Superpowers

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Author Topic:   Frequent Factions that are Superpowers

AmericanTJL posted 04-04-99 11:15 PM ET
Whenever I play a game of Smac The belivers and The Hive are frequently the Superpowers along with me.
Is that the same with all of you?
Thx
AmericanTJL
Koshko posted 04-05-99 12:15 AM ET
If I play peacefully, the Hive and either the Believers and/or Gaians are generally the most powerful of the AI.
Nell_Smith posted 04-05-99 12:34 AM ET
I find that the Believers are almost always the most powerful by around mid-game, with the Gaians second (unless that's me!) and the Hive third. Morgan's usually got about one city and Lal is almost always dead because, despite being the "Peacekeeper", he spends his time declaring Vendetta on factions 400 times more powerful than him!! )
Shadow1188 posted 04-05-99 12:56 AM ET
I find I'm usualy the strongest faction, but close on my tail are usualy (in this order) UoP, Gains and Peacekepers.
Goobmeister posted 04-05-99 01:43 PM ET
I've seen the Gaians and the PK's be super powers when I was UoP, The PK's fought a viscious war with the Hive in that one and were losing until after I gave them some techs and Money and then they wiped the Hive out for me, Morgan was on his way to power when the Tree-Huggers and myself wiped them and the Spartans out.
When I've been the PK's the Gaians and UoP were the Superpowers along with myself. I crushed the Hive and the Gaians and UoP ganged up on a powerful Miriam and destroyed her.
All in all the Builder factions have always seemed to fare better in the games I've played.
Nell_Smith posted 04-05-99 04:24 PM ET
Yep, the builders seem to do better than the warmongers... the Spartans always seem to end up nowhere, despite a powerful spurt in the early game: probably because they build nothing but troops and never bother to terraform, so their minerals and energy levels stay really low. Mind you, playing as the Spartans can be fun, as the "no prototypes" advantage gives you lots of way advanced troops before everyone else
Zoetrope posted 04-05-99 09:29 PM ET
What difficulty does each of you play at? Does that affect the performance of each AI faction?
In several recent games at Thinker level, the Hive have usually done well early, but the Spartans, who have often started near the Hive, eventually conquered them to become the number one power. This has persuaded me to attack Santiago to make myself numero uno.
The Gaians often have a rapid spurt of growth in the latter game - maybe their Planet bonus is most valuable then? Normally I play UoP and begin near Deirdre, so my first order of military business is to capture her cities while she's still weak.
Morgan's never been strong; usually he depends on me to protect him. However, in my latest game on the Huge map of Planet he had the Isle of Deianira to himself and proved remarkably adept at immediately recapturing cities by use of probe teams. I was playing the utter swine for a complete change, so noone liked me, ever. I'd never had committed an atrocity before, but in this I started by breaking peace terms with Deirdre repeatedly until I defeated her. Then I swapped cities with Yang and cheated him by taking over the one I gave him. Unfortunately he became too strong on his home continent for me to hold ground so after he captured one of my cities there with a mind probe (tech stagnation, so I didn't have Hunter Seeker), I obliterated all the rest to prevent them falling into his hands. He hated me ever after, and his first act on getting hold of a PB (tech stag meant that Orbital Defences were far from discovery) was to drop it on my capital (which by then had HSA, and four other SPs including Weather Paradigm and Empath Guild - those losses hurt unremittingly!). My subsequent revenge was massive instant planet remodelling exacted on Morgan (that'll teach his spies!), Yang and Santiago, while I was building Ascent and huge populations for the hands-down vote.
In the same game, Lal started close to Miriam in the centre continent and slowly overran the Believers.
Miriam has done best on water maps, but doesn't last on land. Since Civ2 days I've been good at air power (and howitzers! but poor at both naval strategy and slow land attack units.
The AI in SMAC seems much less ready to drop troops into my unguarded cities; it did that all the time in Civ2, after dropping an atomic bomb; of course a PB doesn't allow for that, but conventional missiles do and the AI never seems to follow up on a missile attack, annoying though repeated missile attacks are per se. Santiago seems particularly keen on lobbing missiles.
Nell_Smith posted 04-06-99 10:40 PM ET
I normally play UoP or Gaians, Transcend level, on a large or huge random map.
At this level, the Believers almost always end up as the second superpower. They are one of the few who bother with seabases, although they don't improve them much, if at all. They do make good use of air power, though.
Morgan never gets anywhere, no matter how good his territory, as he is so slow in expansion and builds virtually no decent troops.
The Spartans get an early lead but then lose out during midgame due to over-aggression: all resources wasted on troops, no infrastructure.
The Hive spreads quickly but builds bases too close together and so ends up with many mediocre cities with unimpressive production.
The PKs ALWAYS seem to get eradicated very fast, or to end up by midgame with just one base. Maybe Lal's incredibly bad temper has something to do with his lack of friends!!
UoP (if not me) sometimes gets quite close to Miriam but doesn't build enough bases to outstrip her.
Gaians (if not me) are often very close behind Miriam, but usually don't build good enough armies to beat her. Mind you, the Gaians are very fond of missiles and PBs, which can give them a lead over Miriam in the late game (and over me too! )
On lower difficulty levels, the same sort of pattern seems to apply, although the Hive tends to be much more on a par with the Believers and Lal also seems to do better, especially on the lowest levels.
On any level, I have never seen Morgan or the Spartans in the lead at any point after about turn 100.
Zoetrope: you're right about SMAC's aversion to drop troops... those CIV2 paratroops were a right nuisance, but SMAC seems to avoid using them: I've had empty cities on my borders, with enemy drop trooms within range (love that Governor infiltration!) and yet the AI didn't seize its chance. Oh well
funnyperson posted 04-06-99 10:58 PM ET
If you are complaining about the faction getting to hard in about mid-game, wipe-out the ones that are close before the problem of the faction becoming to powerful gets too big. It depends on what that faction did or got in early game that got that faction so much of a problem to you. Try to hug the pods they can help. 1st and 2nd place faction always hate each other, unless those two are human-players. So watch out for factions getting to big.
Travathian posted 04-07-99 12:14 AM ET
I'd say the most dominant faction depends a lot on the kind of map and who their neighbors are.
Obviously if the Spartans and the PK are on the same small continent, we know who is going to lose. But what if the PK and UoP were on that same continent? Or Morgan and the UoP? That could get interesting if the computer worked together.
Too many variable to really say who will do good or bad. But I do say that on small island maps almost all computer controlled factions will be hurting besides UoP and Gains.
Coconut posted 04-07-99 10:39 PM ET
Actually, a very interesting development in my last two games has involved the Morganites. CEO Morgan has been lucky enough to land away from most people in the Monsoon Jungle and by the time I got near him he was THE superpower by the dominance chart both times. Of course, as my the first game in which this occured was with the Hive a few nerve gas pod attacks on his cities seriously disrupted his faction and the current, where I'm playing the University of Planet, has actually led to the Gaians taking over most of his cities. He declared war on both of our factions at the same time (my UoP is currently Police State, Green, Knowledge) and my air attacks(without nerve gas this time as I'm trying to have my UoP be a little bit more ethical than the Hive) destroyed his military while the Gaians conquered most of his cities as the terrain, and my lack of suitable ground troops, prevented my faction from taking over most of them. So be cautious around the Morganites as in my current game he was getting tech faster than my University, by far the second strongest tech researcher, and his armies could have defeated either of our factions. It was only by ganging up that we were able to beat him. While he's usually a weak faction he was very strong in those two games and would have been really scary if I didn't go for the Hunter Seeker Algorithim. (Of course, Planet helped with it's increased mind worm activity).
moramir posted 04-08-99 03:09 AM ET
Although I agree that the morganites are usually a weaker fraction, I had a recent game where they where vicious. I was playing the tree huggers at transcendent level and had conquered 4 fractions early in the game with a mind worm rush (Spartans, UoP, Believers and PK). I was far ahead in all rating categories except wealth. After around 200 turns I got the message that the morganites where about to corner the market - and sure enough 20 years leater I was living on my small real estate with no influence on world, pradon alphacentauri politics.
Ack.
Moramir
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Author	Topic: Frequent Factions that are Superpowers
AmericanTJL	posted 04-04-99 11:15 PM ET Whenever I play a game of Smac The belivers and The Hive are frequently the Superpowers along with me. Is that the same with all of you? Thx AmericanTJL
Koshko	posted 04-05-99 12:15 AM ET If I play peacefully, the Hive and either the Believers and/or Gaians are generally the most powerful of the AI.
Nell_Smith	posted 04-05-99 12:34 AM ET I find that the Believers are almost always the most powerful by around mid-game, with the Gaians second (unless that's me!) and the Hive third. Morgan's usually got about one city and Lal is almost always dead because, despite being the "Peacekeeper", he spends his time declaring Vendetta on factions 400 times more powerful than him!! )
Shadow1188	posted 04-05-99 12:56 AM ET I find I'm usualy the strongest faction, but close on my tail are usualy (in this order) UoP, Gains and Peacekepers.
Goobmeister	posted 04-05-99 01:43 PM ET I've seen the Gaians and the PK's be super powers when I was UoP, The PK's fought a viscious war with the Hive in that one and were losing until after I gave them some techs and Money and then they wiped the Hive out for me, Morgan was on his way to power when the Tree-Huggers and myself wiped them and the Spartans out. When I've been the PK's the Gaians and UoP were the Superpowers along with myself. I crushed the Hive and the Gaians and UoP ganged up on a powerful Miriam and destroyed her. All in all the Builder factions have always seemed to fare better in the games I've played.
Nell_Smith	posted 04-05-99 04:24 PM ET Yep, the builders seem to do better than the warmongers... the Spartans always seem to end up nowhere, despite a powerful spurt in the early game: probably because they build nothing but troops and never bother to terraform, so their minerals and energy levels stay really low. Mind you, playing as the Spartans can be fun, as the "no prototypes" advantage gives you lots of way advanced troops before everyone else
Zoetrope	posted 04-05-99 09:29 PM ET What difficulty does each of you play at? Does that affect the performance of each AI faction? In several recent games at Thinker level, the Hive have usually done well early, but the Spartans, who have often started near the Hive, eventually conquered them to become the number one power. This has persuaded me to attack Santiago to make myself numero uno. The Gaians often have a rapid spurt of growth in the latter game - maybe their Planet bonus is most valuable then? Normally I play UoP and begin near Deirdre, so my first order of military business is to capture her cities while she's still weak. Morgan's never been strong; usually he depends on me to protect him. However, in my latest game on the Huge map of Planet he had the Isle of Deianira to himself and proved remarkably adept at immediately recapturing cities by use of probe teams. I was playing the utter swine for a complete change, so noone liked me, ever. I'd never had committed an atrocity before, but in this I started by breaking peace terms with Deirdre repeatedly until I defeated her. Then I swapped cities with Yang and cheated him by taking over the one I gave him. Unfortunately he became too strong on his home continent for me to hold ground so after he captured one of my cities there with a mind probe (tech stagnation, so I didn't have Hunter Seeker), I obliterated all the rest to prevent them falling into his hands. He hated me ever after, and his first act on getting hold of a PB (tech stag meant that Orbital Defences were far from discovery) was to drop it on my capital (which by then had HSA, and four other SPs including Weather Paradigm and Empath Guild - those losses hurt unremittingly!). My subsequent revenge was massive instant planet remodelling exacted on Morgan (that'll teach his spies!), Yang and Santiago, while I was building Ascent and huge populations for the hands-down vote. In the same game, Lal started close to Miriam in the centre continent and slowly overran the Believers. Miriam has done best on water maps, but doesn't last on land. Since Civ2 days I've been good at air power (and howitzers! but poor at both naval strategy and slow land attack units. The AI in SMAC seems much less ready to drop troops into my unguarded cities; it did that all the time in Civ2, after dropping an atomic bomb; of course a PB doesn't allow for that, but conventional missiles do and the AI never seems to follow up on a missile attack, annoying though repeated missile attacks are per se. Santiago seems particularly keen on lobbing missiles.
Nell_Smith	posted 04-06-99 10:40 PM ET I normally play UoP or Gaians, Transcend level, on a large or huge random map. At this level, the Believers almost always end up as the second superpower. They are one of the few who bother with seabases, although they don't improve them much, if at all. They do make good use of air power, though. Morgan never gets anywhere, no matter how good his territory, as he is so slow in expansion and builds virtually no decent troops. The Spartans get an early lead but then lose out during midgame due to over-aggression: all resources wasted on troops, no infrastructure. The Hive spreads quickly but builds bases too close together and so ends up with many mediocre cities with unimpressive production. The PKs ALWAYS seem to get eradicated very fast, or to end up by midgame with just one base. Maybe Lal's incredibly bad temper has something to do with his lack of friends!! UoP (if not me) sometimes gets quite close to Miriam but doesn't build enough bases to outstrip her. Gaians (if not me) are often very close behind Miriam, but usually don't build good enough armies to beat her. Mind you, the Gaians are very fond of missiles and PBs, which can give them a lead over Miriam in the late game (and over me too! ) On lower difficulty levels, the same sort of pattern seems to apply, although the Hive tends to be much more on a par with the Believers and Lal also seems to do better, especially on the lowest levels. On any level, I have never seen Morgan or the Spartans in the lead at any point after about turn 100. Zoetrope: you're right about SMAC's aversion to drop troops... those CIV2 paratroops were a right nuisance, but SMAC seems to avoid using them: I've had empty cities on my borders, with enemy drop trooms within range (love that Governor infiltration!) and yet the AI didn't seize its chance. Oh well
funnyperson	posted 04-06-99 10:58 PM ET If you are complaining about the faction getting to hard in about mid-game, wipe-out the ones that are close before the problem of the faction becoming to powerful gets too big. It depends on what that faction did or got in early game that got that faction so much of a problem to you. Try to hug the pods they can help. 1st and 2nd place faction always hate each other, unless those two are human-players. So watch out for factions getting to big.
Travathian	posted 04-07-99 12:14 AM ET I'd say the most dominant faction depends a lot on the kind of map and who their neighbors are. Obviously if the Spartans and the PK are on the same small continent, we know who is going to lose. But what if the PK and UoP were on that same continent? Or Morgan and the UoP? That could get interesting if the computer worked together. Too many variable to really say who will do good or bad. But I do say that on small island maps almost all computer controlled factions will be hurting besides UoP and Gains.
Coconut	posted 04-07-99 10:39 PM ET Actually, a very interesting development in my last two games has involved the Morganites. CEO Morgan has been lucky enough to land away from most people in the Monsoon Jungle and by the time I got near him he was THE superpower by the dominance chart both times. Of course, as my the first game in which this occured was with the Hive a few nerve gas pod attacks on his cities seriously disrupted his faction and the current, where I'm playing the University of Planet, has actually led to the Gaians taking over most of his cities. He declared war on both of our factions at the same time (my UoP is currently Police State, Green, Knowledge) and my air attacks(without nerve gas this time as I'm trying to have my UoP be a little bit more ethical than the Hive) destroyed his military while the Gaians conquered most of his cities as the terrain, and my lack of suitable ground troops, prevented my faction from taking over most of them. So be cautious around the Morganites as in my current game he was getting tech faster than my University, by far the second strongest tech researcher, and his armies could have defeated either of our factions. It was only by ganging up that we were able to beat him. While he's usually a weak faction he was very strong in those two games and would have been really scary if I didn't go for the Hunter Seeker Algorithim. (Of course, Planet helped with it's increased mind worm activity).
moramir	posted 04-08-99 03:09 AM ET Although I agree that the morganites are usually a weaker fraction, I had a recent game where they where vicious. I was playing the tree huggers at transcendent level and had conquered 4 fractions early in the game with a mind worm rush (Spartans, UoP, Believers and PK). I was far ahead in all rating categories except wealth. After around 200 turns I got the message that the morganites where about to corner the market - and sure enough 20 years leater I was living on my small real estate with no influence on world, pradon alphacentauri politics. Ack. Moramir