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Author Topic:   Best Secret Projects?

Psimanic posted 04-03-99 09:05 AM ET
After looking through some messages, I think that some people have wierd tastes about secret projects! I mean, what good is the Empath Guild, or the Pholus Mutagen!
The best combination of Projects in my opinion has to be the Telepath Matrix and the Cloning Vats - BIG pop. boom, with no need to worry about drones. Whoever gets both has won the game.
ehh posted 04-13-99 09:00 AM ET
try the space elevator in combination with drop units!
you can quickly infiltrate a continent on the other side of the world
Xipe posted 04-13-99 09:27 AM ET
The Weather Paradigm is essential as it allows you to really do some serious terraforming and thus maximizing city output in half the time - playing as the Believers though I'm not sure that I would win the WP race in a multiplayer game, but for single player it's always the SP I go for first. The Cloning Vats are nice later on.
Schoop posted 04-13-99 09:53 AM ET
I'm a big fan of the Universal Translator, no surprise there, who WOULDN'T want to be catapulted forward 15-20 turns in tech?
The Nano Factory--this is great for players like me who prefer to upgrade their obsolete units instead of disbanding them. It also works great when you have a bunch of units far away from any of your cities and they start taking damage. Quick fix is great!
Now I have to disagree with Psimanic about the Empath Guild. I usually can get this built before I've even made contact with 3 other factions, so it lets me call the council earlier, and it provides extra votes on the council, so I can be Governor a little easier.
Plato90s posted 04-13-99 10:29 AM ET
Being governor gets to be more useful in ver 3.0 because you get infiltrator datalinks on everyone. In that case, Empath Guild is more useful. If nothing else, you want to keep it out of the PK's control.
But for an early SP, my vote goes to Weather Paradigm. It's like getting SuperFormers in the early game. The cumulative savings in time and production is literally staggering.
For a mid-game SP, my vote goes to Hunter Seeker Algorithm. Not having to worry about being bribed, probed, sabotaged, or building your own defensive probe teams is a huge bonus for anyone.
For the late-game SP, Telepathic Matrix is the best. By this point, you are dealing with dozens of bases, many of them conquered and does not have a full array of facilities your home bases have. Not being required to worry about drone riots makes management much easier.
Zero posted 04-13-99 12:24 PM ET
Let's not underrate the Network Backbone; my favorite mid-to-late game S/E choices are Democratic/Green/Knowledge/Cybernetic (which can give you a new tech every two or three turns with good infrastructure and trade). Avoiding the police penalty makes it possible to use this and still fight a war.
And some SPs you only build to keep out of the other factions' hands. I definitely don't like to see Yang or Miriam get the Living Refinery, even if +2 support isn't much of a gain for my faction.
Ghost posted 04-13-99 12:38 PM ET
Well, almost all the SP's are good, in their place. Now, I haven't read every post, but I recently posted about the Empath Guild, specifically in relation to the PKs. For most other factions, it's a take or leave it kind of secret project; but for the PK's it is vital, not only to get to be governor earlier than you normally would, but to both maintain and increase your voting bonus.
On the other hand, I rarely bother with Human Genome for the PKs... just not worth it. It's generally easier to let someone else get it and then take it late... but for other factions I generally pursue it pretty hard.
My 2 all time favorites are Weather Paradigm, which not only doubles your terraforming speed but also gives you a lot of options which you would normally have to wait some time for, and Clone Vats, which gives you awe inspiring expansion power and nullifies the penalties of 3 SE choices: power, green, and thought control.
-- the Green Ghost
Zanatar posted 04-13-99 03:28 PM ET
Wouldn`t you guys just naturally
go for each and every SP you can?
I read a good strategy in the Prima`s guide,
that explains a strategy called clustering your secret projects. I`m sure you all know about this strategy.
Basically you dedicate 3 or 4 bases, just
for secret projects. They should be bases which produce decent minerals per turn.
(In the early game that would be anything more then 5 minerals. For most of the game that would mean 12-15 minerals, but by the very last projects that would mean 20+ minerals)
What you do with these bases, is you have each base assigned to a project. If you do not have enough projects for each base in your cluster, then you have those bases working on a redundant project.
This way once you stumble on a tech with a new project, you can change that base to the new secret project, and since secret projects don`t lose any minerals when switched from one secret project to another, you then get a head start on that new secret project.
If an enemy AI faction is racing against you for a certain Secret project and he is on his way to completing it, you may have to hurry the production. The only problem with this, is that the enemy AI may just switch it to another SP that he has, and will be a turn away from that one too, so you may have to hurry it as well.
Your probably not going to be able to get every single SP as eventually one of the other factions will beat you too it. But overall if you stick to this cluster of bases researching SP`s, you should be damn close to getting almost all of the SP`s in the game. Even if the SP isn`t one your particularly intersted in, your at least stopping another faction from gaining that SP`s benefits.
Plato90s posted 04-13-99 06:35 PM ET
My experiences tend to be that I am busy fighting off other factions, and I can't dedicate a bunch of cities to do nothing except build Projects. At Trascendent level, you need to be militant, so some of the early projects will slip by you. No problem as long as you get them in the end.
IMHO, Human Genome, Command Nexus, and Maritime Control Center are not really vital compared to other projects available at about the same time. Merchant Guild and Empath Guild are sort of in-between, but Weather Paradigm, Citizen's Defense Force, and Virtual World are far more important.
ehh posted 04-14-99 07:38 AM ET
I must say i agree with Zanatar, but my tactics is a little different in stead of building all SP's the same thime at different bases, I tend to build one SP at a time and have all bases that are "free" building supply crawlers. Big advantage: no faction beats you in building cause you build the SP in 5-10 turns, whereas the AI players in 15-30.
Sinapus posted 04-14-99 09:25 AM ET
I too tend to spread my SPs around. I then stuff a supply crawler or rover into the build queues. If I'm lucky, I can build up a stockpile and fast build a SP. Otherwise, I tend to beat the computer to a particular SP with supply crawlers.
Actually, I tend to use supply units exclusively for SPs. Haven't tried the borehole strategy others have mentioned.
Hm. Maybe I should build a class of supply units and use that for supply gathering.
Fiannaidh posted 04-14-99 09:42 AM ET
My last game with Diedre, I had about 5 bases that produced about 150-300 minerals per turn with no eco damage!!!
I could build any SP within 5 turns without hurrying.
Plato90s posted 04-14-99 10:32 AM ET
It is quite possible to have huge production in minerals without eco-damage because mineral input from Nessus Mining Stations don't count toward eco-damage.
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Author	Topic: Best Secret Projects?
Psimanic	posted 04-03-99 09:05 AM ET After looking through some messages, I think that some people have wierd tastes about secret projects! I mean, what good is the Empath Guild, or the Pholus Mutagen! The best combination of Projects in my opinion has to be the Telepath Matrix and the Cloning Vats - BIG pop. boom, with no need to worry about drones. Whoever gets both has won the game.
ehh	posted 04-13-99 09:00 AM ET try the space elevator in combination with drop units! you can quickly infiltrate a continent on the other side of the world
Xipe	posted 04-13-99 09:27 AM ET The Weather Paradigm is essential as it allows you to really do some serious terraforming and thus maximizing city output in half the time - playing as the Believers though I'm not sure that I would win the WP race in a multiplayer game, but for single player it's always the SP I go for first. The Cloning Vats are nice later on.
Schoop	posted 04-13-99 09:53 AM ET I'm a big fan of the Universal Translator, no surprise there, who WOULDN'T want to be catapulted forward 15-20 turns in tech? The Nano Factory--this is great for players like me who prefer to upgrade their obsolete units instead of disbanding them. It also works great when you have a bunch of units far away from any of your cities and they start taking damage. Quick fix is great! Now I have to disagree with Psimanic about the Empath Guild. I usually can get this built before I've even made contact with 3 other factions, so it lets me call the council earlier, and it provides extra votes on the council, so I can be Governor a little easier.
Plato90s	posted 04-13-99 10:29 AM ET Being governor gets to be more useful in ver 3.0 because you get infiltrator datalinks on everyone. In that case, Empath Guild is more useful. If nothing else, you want to keep it out of the PK's control. But for an early SP, my vote goes to Weather Paradigm. It's like getting SuperFormers in the early game. The cumulative savings in time and production is literally staggering. For a mid-game SP, my vote goes to Hunter Seeker Algorithm. Not having to worry about being bribed, probed, sabotaged, or building your own defensive probe teams is a huge bonus for anyone. For the late-game SP, Telepathic Matrix is the best. By this point, you are dealing with dozens of bases, many of them conquered and does not have a full array of facilities your home bases have. Not being required to worry about drone riots makes management much easier.
Zero	posted 04-13-99 12:24 PM ET Let's not underrate the Network Backbone; my favorite mid-to-late game S/E choices are Democratic/Green/Knowledge/Cybernetic (which can give you a new tech every two or three turns with good infrastructure and trade). Avoiding the police penalty makes it possible to use this and still fight a war. And some SPs you only build to keep out of the other factions' hands. I definitely don't like to see Yang or Miriam get the Living Refinery, even if +2 support isn't much of a gain for my faction.
Ghost	posted 04-13-99 12:38 PM ET Well, almost all the SP's are good, in their place. Now, I haven't read every post, but I recently posted about the Empath Guild, specifically in relation to the PKs. For most other factions, it's a take or leave it kind of secret project; but for the PK's it is vital, not only to get to be governor earlier than you normally would, but to both maintain and increase your voting bonus. On the other hand, I rarely bother with Human Genome for the PKs... just not worth it. It's generally easier to let someone else get it and then take it late... but for other factions I generally pursue it pretty hard. My 2 all time favorites are Weather Paradigm, which not only doubles your terraforming speed but also gives you a lot of options which you would normally have to wait some time for, and Clone Vats, which gives you awe inspiring expansion power and nullifies the penalties of 3 SE choices: power, green, and thought control. -- the Green Ghost
Zanatar	posted 04-13-99 03:28 PM ET Wouldn`t you guys just naturally go for each and every SP you can? I read a good strategy in the Prima`s guide, that explains a strategy called clustering your secret projects. I`m sure you all know about this strategy. Basically you dedicate 3 or 4 bases, just for secret projects. They should be bases which produce decent minerals per turn. (In the early game that would be anything more then 5 minerals. For most of the game that would mean 12-15 minerals, but by the very last projects that would mean 20+ minerals) What you do with these bases, is you have each base assigned to a project. If you do not have enough projects for each base in your cluster, then you have those bases working on a redundant project. This way once you stumble on a tech with a new project, you can change that base to the new secret project, and since secret projects don`t lose any minerals when switched from one secret project to another, you then get a head start on that new secret project. If an enemy AI faction is racing against you for a certain Secret project and he is on his way to completing it, you may have to hurry the production. The only problem with this, is that the enemy AI may just switch it to another SP that he has, and will be a turn away from that one too, so you may have to hurry it as well. Your probably not going to be able to get every single SP as eventually one of the other factions will beat you too it. But overall if you stick to this cluster of bases researching SP`s, you should be damn close to getting almost all of the SP`s in the game. Even if the SP isn`t one your particularly intersted in, your at least stopping another faction from gaining that SP`s benefits.
Plato90s	posted 04-13-99 06:35 PM ET My experiences tend to be that I am busy fighting off other factions, and I can't dedicate a bunch of cities to do nothing except build Projects. At Trascendent level, you need to be militant, so some of the early projects will slip by you. No problem as long as you get them in the end. IMHO, Human Genome, Command Nexus, and Maritime Control Center are not really vital compared to other projects available at about the same time. Merchant Guild and Empath Guild are sort of in-between, but Weather Paradigm, Citizen's Defense Force, and Virtual World are far more important.
ehh	posted 04-14-99 07:38 AM ET I must say i agree with Zanatar, but my tactics is a little different in stead of building all SP's the same thime at different bases, I tend to build one SP at a time and have all bases that are "free" building supply crawlers. Big advantage: no faction beats you in building cause you build the SP in 5-10 turns, whereas the AI players in 15-30.
Sinapus	posted 04-14-99 09:25 AM ET I too tend to spread my SPs around. I then stuff a supply crawler or rover into the build queues. If I'm lucky, I can build up a stockpile and fast build a SP. Otherwise, I tend to beat the computer to a particular SP with supply crawlers. Actually, I tend to use supply units exclusively for SPs. Haven't tried the borehole strategy others have mentioned. Hm. Maybe I should build a class of supply units and use that for supply gathering.
Fiannaidh	posted 04-14-99 09:42 AM ET My last game with Diedre, I had about 5 bases that produced about 150-300 minerals per turn with no eco damage!!! I could build any SP within 5 turns without hurrying.
Plato90s	posted 04-14-99 10:32 AM ET It is quite possible to have huge production in minerals without eco-damage because mineral input from Nessus Mining Stations don't count toward eco-damage.