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Author Topic:   Must-Have Enhancements

The Observer posted 09-18-99 07:53 PM ET
Hi:
While I enjoy SMAC quite a bit, there are two things nagging at me that I feel should be changed:
Free Economy: This social choice is so bad it's not even funny. Not only has no human player in their right mind ever chosen it, the fact that the Morgan AI always picks it makes for a very weak computer opponent. Might I suggest +2 Econ, -1 Police, -2 Planet.
Playback of Enemy Moves: In multiplayer games, there really should be a way to play back enemy moves. The "You have lost 2 battles and won 3" message box is not helpful.
Documentation: Several of the balance enhancements already made are not documented in the online help (notably the Efficiency immunity for the Hive).
-- The Observer
The Observer posted 09-18-99 07:56 PM ET
Make that three items . And while I'm remembering, one thing to remember for the expansion will be faction balance; faction balance for the original set of factions was pretty good, but it's a strong temptation to make new additions too powerful.
-- The Observer
itdoesntfit posted 09-18-99 10:44 PM ET
The most annoying thing is when the ip game gets interesting (around 2150) and I hold a council meeting, then there is a terran error! And the whole game crashes. Another thing, Hive shouldn't always get green, and Deidre shouldn't always get red, it makes the HIVE too strong, especially if it's multiplayer.
Q Cubed posted 09-18-99 11:31 PM ET
Actually, I don't have a problem with Free Market.
The +2 EC bonus is extremely powerful, and since i'm isolationist on my own continent by that time, I don't need to field large armies, nor do I worry that much about the Planet (Either i have the Manifold Nexus, or I have virtually-non pollution cities).
OTOH, I usually switch from Free Market to Eudaimonic when i can get the chance.
Schoop posted 09-19-99 12:16 PM ET
You think Free Market is bad?? Admittedly, it can be tough to play with, but it's no worse than the "Democracy" government from CivII.
One of my favorite SE combinations is Police State, Free Market, Knowledge. Watch the Tecdh and Money roll in, with the ability to still field a nice-sized army.
Beta1 posted 09-19-99 12:53 PM ET
I think you may have gone in a bit out of your depth with the anti-free market stance. With a few clever tricks (punishment spheres etc.) free market is by far the most useful SE choice for most of the factions for most of the game. That +2 energy per square is vital - by halfway throught the game its money that matters not production.
I tend to use it quite and can confirm that I'm a human player (althought the right mind bit has been questioned occasionally)
Your right about AI morgan though - because he's got +1 econ already he only needs wealth to get to the vital +2
Schoop posted 09-19-99 03:35 PM ET
The only faction that (in my opinion) has no business choosing Free Market EVER is the Hive. It ony brings them up to 0 Economy, (negative economy ain't bad, but Positive is really good) and severely undercuts the bonus they get from the Efficiency immunity. The Hive should only rarely deviate from Police/Planned, that commie bastard.
Well, the Gaians have no business using it either, but unless they've been modified, they can't.
Q Cubed posted 09-19-99 09:01 PM ET
Really? PS/FM?
I go for Dem-FM/Gr-Kn/We-Cy/Eu
for those last three, it goes like fm-kn-cy, and vice versa. i'll switch around those sometimes, but free market is wonderful with or without cybernetics (cyb only for the +2 planet).
itdoesntfit posted 09-19-99 11:01 PM ET
To me, the SE for the hive is WAYYYY too good. Because they have no negative effects, they have perimeter defense, they have all green terrain regardless of what level, moist regardless of moisture settings (at least when i use them). They are invulnerable, with this, they can only have good advantages, never bad, if the hive didn't have this "immunity" effect, they would bbe much more vulnerale, and their perfect "location"s give them such an edge, especially if it's in the beggining.
The Observer posted 09-21-99 10:10 PM ET
Hmm, interesting to see that some people actually use Free Market. Still, I hold my stance that it should be toned down a bit, especially the -5 Police. And you're right, it is very similar to the Democracy choice, but I always chose Republic or Communism. The Hive actually is quite powerful. Maybe they should bottom out at -2 instead of at 0 (or just start with a bonus).
-- The Observer
spgfcs posted 09-22-99 01:07 PM ET
I think the penalty is too tough also. Maybe -3 Police / -2 Planet. -2 Planet even seems too rough. The changes could at least for the AI, Computer Morgan usually does very bad in my games.
I don't know where they got the idea Free Market = Ultra Pollution. In real life the Soviets had much more eco-problems and they weren't Free Market.
- Fred
Schoop posted 09-22-99 02:13 PM ET
In a true Free-Market society, there is an incentive to drain "public" resources for more than your share, especially if you don't have to pay for them. Also, with absolutely no government supervision, no industry will implement expensive pollution-cutting programs.
Soviet pollution problems were more a result of their staggeringly inefficient government than their economic system, while in America we do not have a "true" free market economy--we have government supervision and regulation of many industries.
Schoop posted 09-22-99 02:15 PM ET
and In my opinion, Free Market should remain as it is. Maybe cut back to -2 Planet, I don't know. I've never really noticed the difference between the two, since if I'm going FM, I clear out all the Fungus anyways.
Biddles posted 09-23-99 12:27 AM ET
I agree, Free Market is probably one of the most useful choices to make. I generally play as UoP and that +2 econ can really help the research. On the higher difficulty levels, with democracy-freemarket-knowledge-cybernetic, i have had discoveries down to two turns. This would be impossible without free market.
-Biddles
Beta1 posted 09-23-99 06:56 AM ET
Ironically one faction that shouldn't touch FM is morgan - you only need wealth (+1 econ) to get to the magic +2 level. This is why the computer platys morgan so badly
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Author	Topic: Must-Have Enhancements
The Observer	posted 09-18-99 07:53 PM ET Hi: While I enjoy SMAC quite a bit, there are two things nagging at me that I feel should be changed: Free Economy: This social choice is so bad it's not even funny. Not only has no human player in their right mind ever chosen it, the fact that the Morgan AI always picks it makes for a very weak computer opponent. Might I suggest +2 Econ, -1 Police, -2 Planet. Playback of Enemy Moves: In multiplayer games, there really should be a way to play back enemy moves. The "You have lost 2 battles and won 3" message box is not helpful. Documentation: Several of the balance enhancements already made are not documented in the online help (notably the Efficiency immunity for the Hive). -- The Observer
The Observer	posted 09-18-99 07:56 PM ET Make that three items . And while I'm remembering, one thing to remember for the expansion will be faction balance; faction balance for the original set of factions was pretty good, but it's a strong temptation to make new additions too powerful. -- The Observer
itdoesntfit	posted 09-18-99 10:44 PM ET The most annoying thing is when the ip game gets interesting (around 2150) and I hold a council meeting, then there is a terran error! And the whole game crashes. Another thing, Hive shouldn't always get green, and Deidre shouldn't always get red, it makes the HIVE too strong, especially if it's multiplayer.
Q Cubed	posted 09-18-99 11:31 PM ET Actually, I don't have a problem with Free Market. The +2 EC bonus is extremely powerful, and since i'm isolationist on my own continent by that time, I don't need to field large armies, nor do I worry that much about the Planet (Either i have the Manifold Nexus, or I have virtually-non pollution cities). OTOH, I usually switch from Free Market to Eudaimonic when i can get the chance.
Schoop	posted 09-19-99 12:16 PM ET You think Free Market is bad?? Admittedly, it can be tough to play with, but it's no worse than the "Democracy" government from CivII. One of my favorite SE combinations is Police State, Free Market, Knowledge. Watch the Tecdh and Money roll in, with the ability to still field a nice-sized army.
Beta1	posted 09-19-99 12:53 PM ET I think you may have gone in a bit out of your depth with the anti-free market stance. With a few clever tricks (punishment spheres etc.) free market is by far the most useful SE choice for most of the factions for most of the game. That +2 energy per square is vital - by halfway throught the game its money that matters not production. I tend to use it quite and can confirm that I'm a human player (althought the right mind bit has been questioned occasionally) Your right about AI morgan though - because he's got +1 econ already he only needs wealth to get to the vital +2
Schoop	posted 09-19-99 03:35 PM ET The only faction that (in my opinion) has no business choosing Free Market EVER is the Hive. It ony brings them up to 0 Economy, (negative economy ain't bad, but Positive is really good) and severely undercuts the bonus they get from the Efficiency immunity. The Hive should only rarely deviate from Police/Planned, that commie bastard. Well, the Gaians have no business using it either, but unless they've been modified, they can't.
Q Cubed	posted 09-19-99 09:01 PM ET Really? PS/FM? I go for Dem-FM/Gr-Kn/We-Cy/Eu for those last three, it goes like fm-kn-cy, and vice versa. i'll switch around those sometimes, but free market is wonderful with or without cybernetics (cyb only for the +2 planet).
itdoesntfit	posted 09-19-99 11:01 PM ET To me, the SE for the hive is WAYYYY too good. Because they have no negative effects, they have perimeter defense, they have all green terrain regardless of what level, moist regardless of moisture settings (at least when i use them). They are invulnerable, with this, they can only have good advantages, never bad, if the hive didn't have this "immunity" effect, they would bbe much more vulnerale, and their perfect "location"s give them such an edge, especially if it's in the beggining.
The Observer	posted 09-21-99 10:10 PM ET Hmm, interesting to see that some people actually use Free Market. Still, I hold my stance that it should be toned down a bit, especially the -5 Police. And you're right, it is very similar to the Democracy choice, but I always chose Republic or Communism. The Hive actually is quite powerful. Maybe they should bottom out at -2 instead of at 0 (or just start with a bonus). -- The Observer
spgfcs	posted 09-22-99 01:07 PM ET I think the penalty is too tough also. Maybe -3 Police / -2 Planet. -2 Planet even seems too rough. The changes could at least for the AI, Computer Morgan usually does very bad in my games. I don't know where they got the idea Free Market = Ultra Pollution. In real life the Soviets had much more eco-problems and they weren't Free Market. - Fred
Schoop	posted 09-22-99 02:13 PM ET In a true Free-Market society, there is an incentive to drain "public" resources for more than your share, especially if you don't have to pay for them. Also, with absolutely no government supervision, no industry will implement expensive pollution-cutting programs. Soviet pollution problems were more a result of their staggeringly inefficient government than their economic system, while in America we do not have a "true" free market economy--we have government supervision and regulation of many industries.
Schoop	posted 09-22-99 02:15 PM ET and In my opinion, Free Market should remain as it is. Maybe cut back to -2 Planet, I don't know. I've never really noticed the difference between the two, since if I'm going FM, I clear out all the Fungus anyways.
Biddles	posted 09-23-99 12:27 AM ET I agree, Free Market is probably one of the most useful choices to make. I generally play as UoP and that +2 econ can really help the research. On the higher difficulty levels, with democracy-freemarket-knowledge-cybernetic, i have had discoveries down to two turns. This would be impossible without free market. -Biddles
Beta1	posted 09-23-99 06:56 AM ET Ironically one faction that shouldn't touch FM is morgan - you only need wealth (+1 econ) to get to the magic +2 level. This is why the computer platys morgan so badly