posted 08-17-99 10:34 PM ET        

This thread will be just be about the bugs, the whole bugs and nothing but the bugs...Sorry to you guys who already posted some bugs in the other thread, but could you repost them here? Thanks.

I should also briefly outline what counts as a bug:

1) First, please make sure you are using SMAC 4.0, for obvious reasons (thanks to Darkstar for the reminder).

2) Do NOT list any enhancements here. An enhancement is something you think could have been done in a better way but wasn't. Those things are for a Wish List.

3) Do NOT guess. Many people simply think they see a bug without actually testing it. There have been some cases where people simply didn't understand something and wrongly thought it was a bug. So let's help each other find the real issues.

4) Whenever possible, we will be sending saved games to FIRAXIS showing the bug. This will be of huge help to them in fixing the problem, if they are so inclined. Saved games should be sent to me at:

[email protected]

Make sure the title reflects the bug in question, and also please send a detailed description of the bug, what triggers it, where to look to find it, etc.

5) But just don't send me the detailed info. Please share it with us as well so we can all understand and be involved. For example, don't just say: "The energy bug." Please be specific so we can look for it on our machines as well and hopefully all verify it.

My personal reason for doing this is not to say SMAC is a horrible game. However, two things can't be denied: 1) There still are major (and many minor) bugs in SMAC even after 4.0, and FIRAXIS thinks there is no need for a 5.0. 2) Certain members of the FIRAXIS staff have become rather complacent about bugs and customer relations, going so far in one case to display a degree of ignorance, arrogance and disrespect for the gaming community because we want as close to a bug free game as we can get. Anybody (Jeff) who thinks like that, especially when he is the Quality Assurance director of the company, should be sent a nice fat e-mail with legitimate bugs and, where possible, saved games documenting the problems that still need fixing. He thinks his work on SMAC is over. We beg to differ.

Any don't worry, his boss and anybody else we can think of at FIRAXIS will receive a copy as well...just so nobody else there can claim there are no significant bugs left in SMAC 4.0

One last thing: Is anybody out there good with the editor? As was suggested to me by a secret agent from Australia, it might be much easier to document some bugs if we created situations in the editor that clearly show the problem. This missle range issue would be an example. Is anybody up for that?

posted 08-18-99 02:29 AM ET         

If you go into the Design Workshop and retire a design, then all units of that design disappear for *all* human players.

posted 08-18-99 09:13 AM ET            

Human-controlled and AI-controlled bases and units "disappear" from the screen at random intervals during the game. The entire structure disappears showing only the underlying terrain. They can still be accessed, moved, attacked, etc. providing you remember where they are located. (According to Darkstar this is related to the graphic engine not displaying map overlays as often as it did in prior patches. In view cursor mode by going over the tile, it will be repainted.)
Difficult to get a save file but multiple players have reported this occurring.

posted 08-18-99 05:31 PM ET            

#3 Naval units lose an extra movement point when popping pods. This is very annoying and no .SAV is required. Happens all the time.

#4 Random base facilities appear on bases from time to time and sometimes disappear again in MP IP. I kid you not! I have a base in a game I am playing where a Perimeter Defense AND a Network Node have appeared and stayed and another base where a PD appeared and disappeared.

#5 The game auto-upgrades production to "new" designs, even when you do not want it! I want to build a 0-1-1 Probe Team in a city and each turn it keeps changing it back to 0-1-2 Probe Team (10 mins more!).

posted 08-19-99 11:15 AM ET            

I think the lost movement point is by design. It makes sea pod popping very dangerous! (but it's also very rewarding!)

posted 08-19-99 02:53 PM ET            

re: Enemy Terraforming
The enemy has been altering land. It might be due to raising/lowering, it might be due to other things. The closest base that would notice these effects does seem to be in error, as its been said its always the latest base built.

posted 08-19-99 10:59 PM ET            

Many of Yang's needlejets do not need to refuel. If you look at Yang's needlejets over the Uranium Flats, you will see only some of them will fly back to base for refueling. Some will attack and not crash from lack of fuel. Still others attempt to return to base, but fall far short of making it and still don't crash due to lack of fuel.

posted 08-23-99 02:23 PM ET         

AnnC: "If you go into the Design Workshop and retire a design, then all units of
that design disappear for *all* human players."

tfs99: "Random base facilities appear on bases from time to time and sometimes
disappear again in MP IP."

tfs99 specifically mentions the perimeter defense and network node. These are default facilities for Hive and UoP, respectively. It seems that the MP engine may be confusing the various human players under some circumstances, leading to both bugs.

posted 08-24-99 06:08 AM ET            

You lose 1 point *if and only if* the pod turns out to be infested by native life forms. Otherwise, the behavior is normal. Is this a bug, is this by design ? I don't know.

posted 08-24-99 02:05 PM ET            

It is not consistent with the land pod popping, but then different gameplay design rules apply there, as well. e.g. Land units with >1 MPs can make multiple attacks, while Naval units can't.

posted 08-26-99 04:21 AM ET            

Yang built a fission PB (range 15), and hit one of my cities 23 squares away (and he *did* have other cities within range - just none that had a Special Project )

Yin, I sent it to you already, but if you need it again, feel free to ask.

posted 08-28-99 08:58 PM ET            

I'll send the savegame to whoever wants it, if you need it to confirm this. You can probably do it with your own savegames just as easily though.

posted 09-01-99 04:11 PM ET            

Scenario Editor Bug: Noah's Flood
After loading any map into the scenario editor, RAISING or LOWERING terrain causes the world seas to flood by 1000 meters, drowning the land.

I discovered this while trying to create a 3 vs 3 team map for the SMAC Team League play at ACOL. If you want MY beginning maps that I discovered this on, email me Yin, and I will send you the map. (Custom size, 42 x 80, but this should be repeatible with ANY maps from the noise we have heard already about Editing maps.)

posted 09-01-99 04:47 PM ET         

A mutual enemy took over my pact sibling's city. One of my units was stationed inside and remained inside and under my control after the takeover.

If I get the Cloning Vats, there seems to be an updating bug. Cities will zoom up to the maximum size in one turn after staying the same size for several turns ( max size: restricted by hab complex/ hab dome/ available food) This only happens to cities that I have shut down growth temporarily to prevent more drones. When I turn the transcendi back to workers on food tiles to resume growth, then and only then, this bug occurs.

posted 09-01-99 10:30 PM ET            

This only occurs on maps that were blanked to all ocean via the Edit Map command. And it only occurs ONCE (saving a flooded map, loading it, and raising/lowering land does not cause another flood).

Still highly aggravating when creating maps for multiplayer matches!

posted 09-16-99 06:56 PM ET            

Here is a new one I learned about yesterday:

In MP IP games, Supply Crawlers are disbanded at 1/2 minerals to complete Secret Projects. Yuk!

I was hurrying my Maritime Control Center when I noticed that each crawler was only bringing the turn count down by a turn a piece.

Oh well, this is too bad, yet another bug that would have been found if FurXs (R) had bothered to do any serious MP testing.

posted 09-17-99 06:14 PM ET            

Not defending anyone, but pointing out that there is a difference between OBSERVING, and playing (aka play testing). I know if it was me, I'd played it until I was sick of it as a developer. I'd want to use all the cool new features that just got coded in (especially by me), which obviously would be needed to test in SP or MP. And MP is just so much more fun...

posted 09-17-99 06:17 PM ET            

After all, while the Alkis Easy to Read list isn't all bugs, it's certainly got a few, and I don't RECALL those being reported here. Were they fixed? Probably not. Testing for a bit of them would be a good thing, but we just don't seem to have any interest... in bugs or the game itself. Well, except for a rare few...

posted 09-17-99 08:35 PM ET            

That must be your machine, buddy!

But seriously, I think that you're confusing two different things! When you are pacted with another faction, you already have infiltrator status with that faction. So, you don't gain it by moving a probe team through your pactmate's base and choosing the option "keep moving."

This is an example of something that is not a bug, but due to a misunderstanding, can be perpetuated as one. Careful now, because you're dealing with...

posted 09-22-99 05:15 PM ET            

If you disband _any_ unit in a base, it will contribute 1/2 its minerals to construction, no matter what is being built. To get the full value of supply crawlers, choose "Add mineral value to Secret Project" (or something like that) when you move the crawler into the city building the SP.

posted 09-22-99 06:22 PM ET            

Perhaps I should have made myself clearer in my original post. The fact that the option is not presented led me to use the disband to get minerals from crawlers. I was mistaken in thinking that the same mineral value would be given for the crawler by disbanding.

SO the problem is that SMAC does not recognize the crawler moving into the base in MP IP.

So it really is a bug! But thanks for sharing.

posted 09-22-99 10:10 PM ET            

In v4.0, that was fixed. Have you installed v4.0, yet?

posted 09-23-99 03:35 PM ET            

This workaround reduces the crawler bug to merely annoying, as long as you know to press 'O'

posted 09-27-99 01:10 PM ET            

* Player does not gain Fungus bonus when attacking or defending in a Rocky/Fungus Tile.

* Player gains fungus attack bonus against opponent native life that are controlled by any faction. (I *believe* this is a bug, but unsure if this changes after building the Secret Project that makes all of owning units treat fungus like alien controlled native units.)

* Had a truce with Opponent Engine (Gaians). A few turns into the truce, Opp Eng moved rovers unto two monoliths with additional infantry apparently headed to monoliths for morale boost. Monoliths were directly beside my city and on land claimed by my faction. Contacted Gaians to remove all troops violating my territory. Gaians withdrew all military units EXCEPT the rovers on the monoliths.

posted 09-27-99 08:16 PM ET            

The bonuses for Rocky and Fungus are the same, I think. This means that the game doesn't make them cumulative, and only uses one of them. If they are the same, it's probably a design decision.

posted 09-27-99 08:25 PM ET            

Any particular reason you have to go out of your way to come here and insult people? Was this thread a pop-up in your browser or something? Trust me, if we wanted to bother Firaxis we could. This is just a "for the record" thread that most likely will never be sent now that SMACX is being released next month.

posted 09-28-99 04:58 PM ET            

And I don't recall there is being anything noted in the manual about it, so either the code should do it, or the manual should mention it.

BusterMan, IRM's suck for people that like large to huge maps for a little room to enjoy the game. That ruins their fun. Some of the others aren't as major as others, but...

Since Tim Train said they fixed no bugs in SMACAX, these problems should still be present in your new expansion. I presume you'll want IT fixed. And, of course, the NEW bugs added specific to SMACAX.

posted 09-28-99 07:42 PM ET         

...and I still occasionally get the bug where some AI faction will try to contact me (the same screen comes up several times in rapid sucession) but then the options box (talk/ignore transmission) doesn't follow.

...and I could write volumes about the design workshop, but my main complaint is that obsolete units gifted to me by pact buddies reappear in the active build queue. The computer will then ask me something idiotic like, "would you like to upgrade those 13-1-9 interceptors to the new 6-1-8 interceptors for 60 energy credits?" Nope, I don't think so!

posted 09-28-99 10:52 PM ET            

What was making you angry? Wait, maybe it's better we don't know...

posted 09-29-99 01:31 PM ET            

Or would she have to order it special? I know you don't have a BestBuy or CompUSA handy in your neighborhood...

posted 09-29-99 03:38 PM ET            

1. The infinite missle range bug

Firaxis already promised us that they fixed it in each of the last two patches, however it's still there, (though not as bad) and i think they should finally squash this bug. and short of not allowing the AI to use missles there is no work around

2. The thinker/transcend maintenance cost bug

At transcend you get a 66%, and thinker you get a 33% discount on maintenance this effects game play and there is no work around available for it.

3. In a multi-player game, if you go into the Design Workshop and retire a design, then all units of that design disappear for *all* human players.

This bug effects multiplayer game play and there is no work around for this bug.

4. Artillary units do not damage units when they are outside of a base or a bunker. However, they do work properly against units inside of a base or bunker.

This bug hurts game play by making artillary units, which are already under used, into completely worthless units. There is no work around for this bug

5. If you try to station a probe team in a pact brother's base in multi-player your probe team is destroyed when you click on continue moving

This bug interfers with gameplay in multi-player and makes it hard to help defend your pact brothers against probe teams and there is no work around for this bug.

six through ten aren't nearly as important

6. airdrop cheat

you can drop a unit with the drop pod special ability multiple times a turn by using the right click menu and selecting airdrop here

7. support cheat

you can move a unit to a pact brother's base and select support from here, and then neither you nor your pact brother have to pay support for the unit

8. missing diplomacy feature in mp

in a multiplayer game you can't ask the AI to call off a vendetta against another faction

9. Trading bases now causes all units, with the exception of those on police duty, to disappear. They don't transfer to other bases like before, they just vanish. I traded a base with my pack sister Deidre and I lost several military units located at other bases, a colony pod I had in a transport, and several terraformers which were being supported by the base I traded. My other bases could have easily supported them. Deidre also lost a few units which were supported by the base she traded to me.

annoying and if you trade a base there is no work around

10. Scenario Editor Bug: Noah's Flood
After loading any map into the scenario editor, RAISING or LOWERING terrain causes the world seas to flood by 1000 meters, drowning the land

once again annoying and there is no work around

posted 09-29-99 03:46 PM ET            

just wondering

posted 09-30-99 12:25 AM ET            

On number 5, regarding the stationing of probes in your pact brother's base. That is not correct. I have stationed probes in my pact brother's bases before. Both human and AI players. A foil probe in a human player's sea base, and an ordinary probe team in a submissive AI pact-brother's base.

posted 09-30-99 03:31 AM ET            

i lost about five probes in one game because of it and i am nearly positive it was with version 4.0 but there is a slim chance it could have been in version 3.0, i'll have to check it again but like i said i am nearly positive it happened under 4.0 but i know it happened

posted 09-30-99 02:17 PM ET            

The last time Yin did a list, he PRIORITIZED it. We just sent to him email, or posted our list of bugs.

Small bugs (like the Mindworm on Patrol) should be listed here, and in the general list, but at the bottom of the list as bugs of opportunity. The reason is that if they are in the code, checking for or fixing the more complex ones like IRM, they might be in the same code that has the errant problem. We don't know how they built their code, but I know from my professional experience that I'd rather have a full list of bugs, so I can smash them all at once. This would be their 5th enhancement. Many of these bugs SOUND like they should be a quick fix, and every little thing corrected is a better game for all players. After all, odds are that its the SAME way in SMACAX... Tim Train said they didn't kill any bugs in it while doing it because Firaxis did not know of any to be squashed.

I believe that Firaxis said they were going to do a patch so non AX players could play against AX players. So that means they are going into the code, anyways. But the window of opportunity will be closing soon, I bet...

posted 10-01-99 02:07 AM ET            

Hmmn, that's weird. Both of the MP games that I have stationed my probes in pact brother's bases were started as version 3 games. I believe that all of the players involved in each the games have upgraded to version 4, since we began. I will keep an eye on the games and see if there's anything that I can spot, which may look fishy, as I will undoubtedly be moving my probes into/through my pact brothers bases in both of these games.

Just clutching at straws here, but did the player owned the base(s) that you moved into, have the HSA? Of course, if they did, they wouldn't need your help in protecting the bases from probe intrusion.

posted 10-01-99 02:18 PM ET            

nope i had the HSA so unless it started working against me it wasn't an issue. maybe this will help shed some light, it was morgan and he had surrendered to me, and i was trying to protect the tech i gave him from nell smith's evil clutches...

i would move a probe team into his base and then the box would come up saying do a probe action or continue moving, i would always select continue moving and then my probe team would disappear, since i gave all my tech to morgan i kept on trying to station probe teams in his base and the probe teams kept on disappearing, so i finally gave up and eventually nell nerve gased and killed him (after stealing tech from him)

i have only played a few multiplayer game since then and i haven't tried to station bases with probes so i haven't encountered it again but it was there, and i do remember now, it was a version 3.0 game

any ideas?

posted 10-02-99 01:48 AM ET            

I'm back too. With: 2 more bugs!!!

Probe foils used to get relocated to landlocked bases. That's fixed now, but they do get relocated to bases adjacent to one-tile oceans. I don't think this bug needs a savegame as proof: it's a logical oversight of the designers.

Solution: Probe foils shouldn't get relocated to the closest city, but to the closest city they can reach over water. This also solves the strange situation where ships spying near 'Cuba' get relocated to the 'Pacific' (assuming no 'Panama Canal' exists) when they could have gone to 'Canada'. (Is this sufficiently clear?)

posted 10-02-99 02:17 AM ET            

I don't know for sure, but it may have been specific to version 3. Like I said, I've been operating under version 4 (though the games were started under v3) so it may be something that has since been fixed.

Nell's my pact sister in one of my pbems, and has the HSA, as well as some spare probes running around. I'll ask her to send a probe into one of my bases, to see if the problem still exists under version 4. It may be a few days until I can get back with you on it.

posted 10-02-99 01:39 PM ET            

good idea as always

jam

i'm grasping at straws here but ask nell if she still has the save game between us, she might, and if she does you could see for yourself, if not it may HAVE been my system (if jeff morris keeps on saying it, i guess he has to be right once)

but if we do find bugs in SMACX we do need to prioritize them, though still seending the full list, like we should say to firaxis you must fix these bugs because they truly effects gameplay, and besides those bugs you must fix here's the rest of the bugs we have encountered

posted 10-02-99 07:31 PM ET            

I've put a zipped savegame on my homepage to show the problem:

http://huizen.nhkanaal.nl/~micje/Morgan.zip

Go to Morgan Studios. There is a Golden Age in that city. The total psych production is 14. Go to the psych menu, and you'll see that this converts 3 drones into talents. Now convert 2 workers to specialists (entertainers). This raises the psych output to 21. However, it still converts only 3 drones to talents, instead of (potentially) 5. This makes psych and Golden Ages even more underpowered than they already are.

Another point, which is not a bug, but definitely an unwanted feature. Since all specialists are by definition "content" (meaning they don't count as talents) and there are only 20 squares around a base, this means that it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a 41+ base with a Golden Age.

posted 10-04-99 01:07 PM ET            

I recently began playing a SMAC again. And in doing so, I've ran across a few MORE bugs I haven't reported/seen reported. One for which I have the details handy:

Bug Type: Minor - AI bug: Opponent Engine can build a base on Borehole Cluster in version 4. The base tile acts like any other (2-1-1) from that time on. Player CANNOT build on Borehole Cluster. Highly Annoying as a Borehole is a borehole , and part of the landmark bonus gets ruined by this. Then have to commit atrocity and raze the base, or use slow way to starve/relocate. Both BAD when Secret Projects in such a captured base.

Saved game available where Opp Eng Morgan built base on Borehole Cluster (terrain tile is flat and moist).

posted 10-04-99 02:04 PM ET            

Here's a bug that I haven't seen in the list so far, I call it the "Can't Receive Message" bug. This is when, immediately after conquering an enemy city, a pop-up appear say there is an urgent message from the enemy faction leader. Press OK, and get the same pop-up message again. This will happen about four more times. Afterwards, the enemy faction leader, in a pop-up, will say something along the lines of doing Planet a favor by conquering your faction.