posted 08-06-99 01:13 AM ET        

How do you beat this game, they wonder?

First, get patch 1.31 from Microprose.

Second, remember the path of the Peaceful Expanist Builder. That means, strong build up of your colonies. The Opp Eng will start off ahead of you, but you will surpass it and then be able to vote yourself in, kill the Antareans, or conquer the galaxy.

I like to play Subterrean, Creative, Low-G, Custom race on a Large world.

Creative is important, in that it lets you hop around the hard decisions. It also lets you use your Spy force for home defense only.

Sub gives you more space to live per colony.

Large gives your capital a good industrial base.

Low G means don't do ground invasions until you get some serious tech. But that's alright, you shouldn't be doing so anyways.

But what about the Early Rush, Oh Dark One? Don't worry about. Its not the way. What? Yep. There ARE ways to do so (Mind control races), but I think they are a cracks in the design, not a feature.

Unlike SMAC, with its Psychotic Opponents, you can maintain peace with your neighbors and buy them off long enough to swap over your major industrial centers to making military units if you decide you might to. Having one countless games using just diplomacy, 2 scouts, and endless colony ships, I can tell you its easily possible. But you might have to pay tribute to your militant neighbors. Don't be upset. It improves their opinion of you, and makes them vote for you, as long as they aren't the other choice for Supreme Commander.

But what if I want to kick everyone's but?

Ah, well then...
From the start of the game, go research crazy. And expand. Research is the key in which you get the goodies to make supreme military units (called ships) in which one of your can wipe out many of theirs.

I go for the Research lab. Then I go for either Hydro lab, or Automated factory (2nd set behind the top left choice). From then on, I chose Research (autolab, etc), Production (always welcome), Food, then Money. Anything else I fit in whenever. I order all colonies to build Automated Factory, Research Lab, Hydro, and Spaceport. Then I leave it on AutoBuild.

Build spies each and every time the enemy succeeds in stealing something. There are techs that raise your spying. Take them.

Build the biggest ships possible. Rotate them through a secondary industry center and refit them occasionally.

Keep an eye on your command points. If your fleet gets too big, grab the techs that raise your command points.

Fear not the Antereans until they start using Battleships. A planet with with star base/battle-station, missile base, beam weapons, and fighter stations will make short work of any antereans. Do not use your navy, as the antereans will most likely eat your navy.

Well, there's a start. MOO2 is a 4X game, and lets you follow the peaceful expanding builder well. Make use of the diplomacy. Stay at peace until YOU are ready to go to war. Build Industry boosters first, then Research, then food, then money.

The perfect Peaceful Expansionist is a very valid path in MOO2. I don't think Firaxis incorporated enough of MOO2 into SMAC (customize units and certain elements of diplomacy seem to be the only things they borrowed).

There is also problems in following the Early Rush. The only way I know of to do so is to make use of the special properties of the Mind Control talents. And simple distance prevents an early rush (I love large and huge maps).

MOO2 is a game balanced pretty well towards the build to the "industrial" age and sweep everything before you. I am sure its a game that Sid and Brian have enjoyed in the past. If they can find a way to make their games more balanced towards such an action, rather than the Early Rush, am I sure most would enjoy their games more.

posted 08-06-99 04:48 AM ET            

Ah, the memories. I may have to re-install again, soon.

posted 08-06-99 08:11 AM ET            

Still, Shadwhawks strategy of building multiple fleets and the incredible power of beam weapons makes the end game a certainty. My primary dissapointment in Moo2 was the wimpy Antarians.

posted 08-06-99 11:27 AM ET            

I have taken some advice from Stargazer, et al... and am playing my 7th game with the normal difficulty, huge galaxy, two opponents and a customized race. I selected subterranean to get big population, +1 food, +1 science, +50% growth and repulsive. I then used the Elerian icon as a nice foil to the repulsive characteristic. BTW, I specifically chose repulsive since that is the way that JKM looks at most of us.

So far things look really good. I was fortunate to colonise 5 huge terran class planets very early and I did the space version of ICS as I chugged out mucho outposts and colonies. This really seemed to hem in the Silicoids(I hate those bastards) and the Gnolams. As a matter of fact, my biggest problem seemed to be a neverending stream of space monsters that would really eat into my fleet until I got phasors/pulson missiles. Also, I picked up a few heroes and techs.

Needless to say, the Gnolams picked up a bad case of "little man's complex" and decided to launch a withering attack against my outposts with a battleship and a transport. Boy were they surprised when they went after the Vis system(one of my 30 pop terrans)and were looking at a battlegroup of 12 Vader class titans packing 20 pulson missiles in fast racks and 30 phasors each. I'm sure that "oh sh#t" was probably the mildest response from that Gnolam crew before they were obliterated.

Oh well, to speed up this already long tale, the Gnolams are no more and "dwarf Tossing" has been reinstituted as an Olympic sport. Now it's time to sharpen the knives for those siliciod bastards before they figure out that I own 3/4 of the galaxy.

On to Orion!

posted 08-06-99 02:01 PM ET            

Playing as humans is fairly worthless, unless you are playing at the toughest level. Humans do very well at the toughest level, because they can normally survive (through diplomacy) until the middle game. Then it's just a matter of kicking butt.

posted 08-06-99 02:12 PM ET            

That's just downright unfair!

If you're going to tease us then you have to tell us.

Re MP: Please be more specific on the MP bugs. Stargazer really knows this game and might be able to help. I'm in for MP if we can get it going as this game plays fast enough to keep us from dying of old age.

posted 08-06-99 02:22 PM ET            

In my experience, Multiplayer MOO2 is problematic at best. 2 main reasons:

1. Some of the "Hero" types give you unbelievably powerful technology (like Autolabs, Androids, etc..) If someone picks up Autolab early in the game, it's over.

posted 08-06-99 03:38 PM ET         

Personally I prefer the 2x missles because you can create a massive flotilla of smaller ships for the same price as a couple of large ones. I don't build leading edge technology, you don't need it. Go for quantity over quality. I pack as many 2x missles in a ship as I can and ignore shields, and specials. With these kind of ships you aren't going to sit around and fight anyway. You drop into a system let fly and either take out the opposition within one or two turns or retreat. If you come up against anything too hard you'll lose a few ships but they're relatively cheap to replace.

posted 08-06-99 04:08 PM ET            

I always thought that the low-G would be too big a problem since I'd have negatives to everything on all normal-G & heavy-G worlds. I'll have to revisit that and see if it would be useful.

posted 08-07-99 03:44 AM ET            

I usually go for high-tech stuff, and get annoyed when a Titan with 63 Heavy Fusion Beams and 99 Fusion Beams blows the hell outta my Doom Star with Class X Shields and a Stellar Converter. :P

Hrm, I may have to re-install soon.

posted 08-07-99 08:32 PM ET            

But MOO2 is a great game anyway. It's ship designing and combat system are simply great.

What I would like is a MOO3. One takes the ease of play from the first one, new innovation from the second and adds something new.

posted 08-09-99 11:41 AM ET            

This weekend, I tweaked the humans a little...and *half* the races in the game were repulsive. (Makes trading for tech somewhat harder, eh?) Somehow stayed friends with the Klackons and the Elerians the entire game. (The *Elerians* were everywhere! I've never seen them actually take off like that before. Killed off 3 races before I rammed a Council victory down their throats...)

Autofiring, armor-piercing mass drivers rule. At least, until your neighbors are sporting class V shields.

And by the time you hit those heavy shields, you can do it again with Gauss Cannons. Ow!

One Titan, 11 AF/AP/HV GC's. (and hyper-X capacitors) Shredded the *entire* Silicoid fleet in about 4 turns. (30 or 40 battleships, some other small fry) Silly rocks!

posted 08-09-99 04:28 PM ET         

PHASORS!

Tell me if I'm wrong but once I have these babies its just a matter of which planet should die next!

Sure there are bigger weapons but there is no other that gives you the most bang for the buck. By the time hotter weapons are availible I can overload the phasor with auto fire, shield piercing, continuos, heavy mount and still load more on a chassis for more damage.

Then couple this with High energy focus, structural analyzer, (later Achilies targeting) and you are unstopable.

Their only weakness is penatrating Barrier shields.

posted 08-09-99 05:38 PM ET            

But by phasors, things are going so swift, that I just end up doing Death Rays and choosing the Constant Damage weapons as my secondary (Hv), triaries (normal with bonus abilities), and top possible point defense. But then, I think all ships need Torps/missiles and Interceptors for the fun of it.

Not the most effiecent, perhaps, but I enjoy it.

posted 08-10-99 11:46 AM ET         

General - Terraforming & Planet Construction are the keys to power. Turn mundane systems into multi-terran powerhouses.

posted 08-10-99 03:30 PM ET            

How to capture Antarean vessels? Usually you just have to build ships designed just for it. Forget shields and put in reinforced hull and heavy armor instead. Use tractor beams to stop Antarean ships, and naturally troop pods because you need a lot of marines to succesfully capture an Antarean ship.

If you've had a good start, and Antareans are still attacking just with small fleets made up of frigates and destroyers, this kind of ships are just about all you need, especially if you are on a planet with missile base. But almost always you should have small ships (frig/dest/crui) armed only with 2-shot MIRV-missiles, and pick out the bigger enemy ships that are harder to board.

To capture an Antarean vessel you literally have to swamp them with marines. They have a huge bonus, and a lot of your boys aren't coming back. To make things worse, quantum detonators self-destruct the ship that has been captured, at 50% chance...

But if you can spare the refitting needed for special ships, and manage to capture antarean technology, it's well worth it. Something like particle beam will turn the in your favor, whatever your situation is.

posted 08-10-99 04:41 PM ET            

Missile boats are how you do a "rush" conquer game. Particularly useful with telepathic

As far as governments go, I always like to point out that out of the ~10 built-in races, the designers used dictatorship in all but 3. However, if you must choose a "different" government choose Unification. For it's price it's a pretty good deal as it effectively gives you a +2 boni to farming AND industry. Democracy is kind of a rip-off as money isn't nearly as important as production is ... And feudalism just blows (note that unification is UBER strong once you get galactic unification: 75% to industry and farming!!)

Beam weapons are quite effective against Antarans, but not until you get good computer tech. You basically need the Achilles Targeting system AND the Cybertronic Computer and then you can kick ass with all the death rays you want. They are easier to kill with missiles ... but only if you're using ECCM and preferably EMG.

-ZG-

posted 08-10-99 04:51 PM ET            

The only custom ships I make are Boarder Specials, and in general, I haven't bothered with those in a long while.

But I find that MOO's special ship building strategies just aren't needed in MOO2. I think that is one of the key elements that kept me from feeling MOO2 was an end all and be all classic game. But its still good and fun to play, and that's saying something!

posted 08-11-99 01:13 PM ET            

The great thing about these ships is that they can fire both volleys of missiles as soon as combat starts, and immediately retreat, leaving the big ships behind to clean up whatever the missile swarm doesn't pulverize. The nice thing about these "missile boats" is that they don't need shields, computers, or any special features other than fast racks. This translates into cost savings.

Furthermore, they can be built at any base, don't need any kind of experience, and are virtually untouchable (since they fire and retreat as soon as combat begins). I have found these little ships to be HIGHLY effective.

posted 08-13-99 01:30 AM ET            

Btw, I've archived the posts from the beginning up to about April/May 1999 on this site:

ftp.ee.latrobe.edu.au/pub/gt/moo2/antares

A couple of points about ship-building strategy:

1. Fighting enemy fleets and planets require different weapons. AF Hv Gauss Cannons are the most devastating anti-fleet weapon, as their damage is significant, range independent (they're a better mass driver) and you can pack so many aboard. Add AP if the enemy hasn't got Heavy Armor yet.

Similarly, AF SP Hv Phasors are devastating against all but Hard Shields.

2. However, planets require heavier beam weapons. Stellar Converter if you have it, or Death Rays, or AF Hv Disruptors. Maulers look good, but their damage dissipates with distance, so Mauler ships need to close swiftly.

High Energy Focus, Structural Analyser, and Achilles Targetting Unit, are great favorites. The manual and online help are vague about this, but they enhance only the beam weapons.

If you don't mind clearing the planet of all signs of life and civilisation, then you can send a hail of missiles. Nukes are still good anti-planet weapons at the end of the game, despite Class X Barrier shields, though by then they do nothing against heavily shielded ships.

Bombs are also very effective if you can get your bombing ships close enough to drop their loads, because the AI targets them first. Or you can bring frigate bombers as decoys.

Ships that bomb or board need to be fast, so that they can get real close before getting fried.

3. Antarans: Assault Shuttles. Send enough of these, provided you have _some_ ground combat ability, and the Antarans will succumb. Since AS work against mobile ships, you avoid the risk of the Antarans blowing their QD while stationary. Just close with your AS carriers on your turn, and launch them at close range.

If you just want to kill the Antarans (quite a waste until you have all their best tech), then EMG missiles are excellent. Anatarans have no shields, so they cannot prevent engine damage, even from nukes.

In the early game, I like to use Ion Pulse Cannons against enemy starbases, to leave them as empty husks. Only drawback is that if its your most RP intensive beam tech, the AI equips your starbases and ground bases with IPCs, which is woeful when the Antarans and the Space Monsters visit.

posted 08-13-99 01:55 AM ET            

Since several posters here are new to MOO2, I'll mention that although Microprose didn't supply any editors (other than the ship design screen and initial race customisation), several players did. Some of the very useful editors (also available at my ftp site) include:

1. COrion2, which edits save games to change the stars and planets, ships, monsters, AI personalities and techs, and the leaders present. For example, there are some scenarios that have greatly strengthened Monsters, or a much tougher Guardian, or a ship design that resembles Star Trek: DS9's Defiant.

2. MeltPot (Melting Pot), which lets you create new races and looad them into MOO2 as defaults. It also edits save games to delete items from the tech trees available to each race, which is good for adding flavor.

3. PickHack, which changes the number of points that each race-pick costs. For example, some people reckon Creative is only worth 6, but Unification is worth 8 or more. You can save the pick values into a file, which you can load later: this is useful once you've worked out what each pick is worth in a small advanced organic galaxy or a huge prewarp mineral galaxy.

4. Leader editor. Since, in multiplayer, leaders can be excessively unbalancing, change them!

posted 08-18-99 11:28 AM ET            

I'm looking for your recommendations on how to take out the Orion guardian. What do I need to pull it off with a reasonable chance of success? Can I fly in a handful of 2X fast rack missile cruisers with a heavily armored/shielded "survive until the missiles hit" cruiser and take it out?

thanks in advance,

posted 08-18-99 04:34 PM ET            

Glad to see you found the $15 large. I think you'll find it to be a good value.

Re the Guardian. I tend to like a combo of Pulson missiles, phasors and level 3 to 5 shields before I go after it. Fast missile racks is a nice bonus and battle pods lets you really get a lot of bang in the first volley. I've never tried doing it with anything less than titans though. I just find that cruisers die too darn fast.

Darkstar,

I noticed that you tend to go high tech with all of the goodies. Probably comes from being a "creative candyass".

Seriously though, I've been playing sort of low tech where I pack the ships with max weapons and then blow the crap out of the enemy in the first round. My favorite combo is disruptors, proton torpedos and zeon missiles. I guess I'm just trying to blow them out of space with sheer volume.

Could you please point out any particular weaknesses with this approach? Or is this just the beauty of this game that you have so much latitude in design.

posted 08-19-99 12:53 AM ET            

I couldn't tell you about any particular problem with your described approach... other than possible command points. In Single Player, to each his own! Maybe a non-candyass creative type could though...

posted 08-19-99 01:08 AM ET            

OK, OK, I'll cut you a break on the creative thing. If you want SMACophant license 004 you can have it. Sorry, I gave 003 to Shiny1.

You said you like Impact drivers with all the upgrades. Aren't they worthless againt class 5 shields?

Also, do you know where they show the hit tables? Frankly, combat goes so fast that I'm not sure if hitting the target really has anything to do with it and that is why I adopted this approch.

posted 08-19-99 01:30 AM ET            

I haven't a clue. But the numbers just flash up... and that doesn't happen if you miss. Since MOO2 does not have the ultimate ship designs of MOO (AutoRepair, Anti-matter Torp, Repulsor Rays, and 2 tile range weapons), the closest you can come for ship to ship combat is inflicting damage from maximum range. That seems to me to generally be the Impact weapons with the beam benefactors. Ever seen a Maxed Impact ship fire each of its weapons 6 times? I haven't tried it in a while, but auto controlled ships with Autofire and the Beam 2x shot Special will fire 6, not 3 times. Serious damage, first shot. Several ships so equiped... whosh.

Lo tech I still love the Mass Drivers. And missiles. I like to waste space on a fighter bay or two as well, but you can't always get what you want when not being creative. But that is where you learn about weapon refinements for the first time, and how useful they are.

posted 08-19-99 02:31 AM ET            

Yes, lots of customization. And then there are the fan created editors...

posted 08-19-99 03:01 AM ET            

This may well be the way I'll buy games from now on. By buying this game 2+ years late, here are my benefits:

** Patch 1.31 is just waiting there for me, the product of lots and lots of OTHER people's work, a resource I have spend 0 seconds helping develop.

** An advanced state of fan support (verging, perhaps, on obsolecence, but still there from what I read). The cream of the fan-created crop has already risen, and the harvest is ripe.

** Something tells me my P2 450 will handle the 486 requirements.

** $9.99 Hell, Dreadnought found it for $5!

The drawbacks:

** It's not a cutting edge game anymore. (You know what? Cutting edge to me now means bending over, so who cares?)

** I missed out on the "fun" of its development, release and redevelopment. I'm out of the loop. (You know what? I'm in the loop on SMAC's and Civ3's development and I highly doubt my hours and frustrations will be justified. Plus, I can join the MOO2 world now without much loss.)

** I missed the chance to buy the game at full price and contribute to the gaming world in a far more substantial way. (HA! That's the biggest joke of all!!!)

Yep. I'm waiting at least 6 months to a year to buy my games. Even 2 years sounds good to me now. I'm not kidding. If and until SMACX hits the $4.99 bargain bin, I'm not wasting my breath on it let alone my cash. Civ3? I'm scheduling a trip to the local garage sale in the year 2002 for that little piece. Maybe I'll trade my old BeeGees record for it.

posted 08-19-99 04:29 AM ET            

Also, you can tell a lot about a game in how fast its price drops. And considering that it takes 3 to 5 weeks to discover that an irate or careless programmer dropped a nasty virus into the program, there are other bennies to waiting.

The people out of the money for not early adopting is where you SHOP though. The software publishers got their money, didn't they? I don't think that's a consignment deal, so NOT buying a game really seems to punish your local merchant more than a particular company. Sending the whole thing back, postage due (like StargazerBC), to the authoring company might be the only way to take THIER money away.

Something to think about...

posted 08-19-99 05:17 AM ET            

Something else to consider is this: Retailers currently have publishers by the balls. The issue is shelf-space and how much they'll charge to put the game up on display and for how long, etc. If a company has proven itself with previous titles that sold well, they can expect to get good shelf space at "reasonable" prices. Amazing, actually, that they have to pay in order to sell the game, but that's retail for you (a BIG reason, I think, FIRAXIS is toying with on-line sales. Actually, I'm all for brick and mortor shops going away if that means we get cheaper games with less hassle. Circumventing the need for publishers in itself would be like clearing the streets of pimps. Like I said, Chips and Bits is great. The "goods" get delivered to me in a plain brown box).

All this means, of course, that if a games sits and sits on the shelf, the company (well, its publisher) will have a MUCH harder time getting that same shelf space next time. Of course, Civ3 has reserved parking at this point...but not buying a game DOES hurt the company in terms of its reputation with retailers. So, waiting until it hits the bargain bin is good for two reasons: One, you get it cheap. Two, you bought it off non-prime retails space, sending a clear message to retailers what kind of company gamers think made the game. If it gets bad enough, gaming companies have a harder and harder time finding a publisher who will touch them. So, it's not so much that buying the game puts money in the gaming company's pocket--like you said, they already got their few bucks per title. It's the NEXT game that really matters and what publisher is willing to take them on next time.

posted 08-21-99 05:28 AM ET            

Since then, I have usually played uncreative. It makes MOO2 a new game every time. For example... how do you take on the guardian if you only have Mass Drivers?

Jaechdan -
Yes, missiles are a great way to kill Antaran ships. They have a good beam defense, so it takes a while to build up the tech for easy beam kills against them. On the other hand, they have no shields, so nuke missiles will always hurt them. Against more powerful Antaran ships, missiles act as shielding for you (since the Antarans shoot the missile instead of your ship), and don't reflect.

Zorak Zoran -
I would have to disagree on Orion techs. I give the Death Ray away because the computer will use it instead of a real weapon, like Plasma Cannon, SPAF Phasor, or AF Disruptor. If the Death Ray reduced in size w/tech, & went AF or EV, I would use it, but I don't put the thing on my gunships. Reflection Field is nice, but not overpowering. Particle Beams can be great for fighters, if you don't have SP AF Phasors, otherwise they are worthless. Quantum Detonator is great! I give it to everyone & they are stupid enough to use it. Armor is great, but unless you are uncreative, it is not overpowering. Spacial Compressor is interesting, and can make a good missile defense, but it is hardly an overpowering tech. I take Orion for the point score, not for the tech. Damper field is a nice combo to make hard to kill ships, but again is not overpowering. Also... most of these techs can be gained by mugging Antaran ships.
How to board an Antaran... Equip your ships with Neutron Blasters, or (the one use I have for it) Death Ray. Troop pods & tractor beams should be on all of your ships. You want 1 ship for each Antaran, and your ship should be 2 sizes up from the Antaran ship. The first round, you approach the Antarans without firing. The second round, gang up on half or more of the Antaran ships. Close to range 1, fire tractor beam, fire troop killing beam weapon, wait... repeat for all ships. Once all ships have fired beam weapons, attempt boarding. On higher versions of MOO, you may have to modify this a bit due to changes in firing order. For a final note, remember that ground combat techs help you take over ships.

Cadrys -
Auto MDs are great, esp since they come at the same level as Planetary Rad Shield. For uncreative, you may have to go with FST MIRV nukes in the beginning game.

GreasyPig-
My common beam weapons... (in order of my views, best to worst)
On my version, Plasma Cannon is the king of ship killing. The only problem is that Plasma can accidentally kill off planetary population. I have fired on size 17 planets & killed off all population while trying to kill off the assorted ground to space weapons. Looking at some posts here, it looks like Plasma damage may be reduced at higher versions than I have.
AF SP Phasors are a good second. Someone with Hard Shields can give you a real hard time, but AF SP Phasors are a good all around weapon. If I get Timewarp Fac, I sometimes extend my arc to FX & remove the heavy. This does more damage per ton, but the reduced range requires the double movement to bring everyone into your firing range.
AF Disruptors are a good reliable weapon. Since damage does not vary, they make good planet weapon killers. They will kill of the bases, but will not accidentally wipe out the population like Plasma.
AF Gauss & AP AF Gauss are good weapons, and is mixed in with defensive techs.
I hate Death Ray, but some days uncreative people just don't get any real weapons. I also use Death Ray on my troop ships to kill off marines before boarding.
AF Ion is a great weapon against low shield opponents. Opponent 1 blows up, damaging all of his friends, and blowing up the missiles he just fired at you. It is also a low tech weapon.
Neutron Blaster is a good tech for killing off troops, and for breaking down shields so your Ion can blow up the ship.
AF Mass Driver & AF AP Mass Driver are good solid beginning weapons. If I get lucky & get MDs & Planetary Rad Shield, I will use these early on. Later, AP AF MDs are great point defense weapons. You can wipe out swarms of AR Fst MIRV missiles.
I don't use too many other beam weapons. Since I am uncreative, I may get stuck with something else, but not often.

Other weapons of honorable mention:
Black Hole Generator, Timewarp, & Phasing Cloak... Kills everyone... but not very fast. If you're into micromanagement, this is a great ship.
The Stellar Converter is great for planetary assault. It removes buildings & leaves the population intact. It (with another tech or three) can also convert Tiny Toxic Ultra Poor plants to Large Gaia.
Missiles can be a good buy. They are slow... beam ships can kill off multiple opponents before missiles can cover the distance, but they are cheap. Use 2x Fst MIRV & you will do lots of damage. I use missiles to kill off critters in the early game. Look at the numbers... To kill off a Space Dragon with MDs reguires 3 battleships and 1580 research. 3 destroyers with 1380 reasearch can do the same thing. A dozen frigates & 250 tech (2x Fst Nuke) can kill more critters than you might think.
Gyro Destabalizer is a cheap weapon that can trash your enemies order of battle.

posted 08-21-99 10:45 AM ET            

The first time I tried to board an antaran ship they killed my troops off about 5 for one of their own, so using ion cannons/death rays would save me a lot of trouble if they work.

Mass drivers do NOT work well on the guardian. I sent five titans mostly loaded to the gills with autofire mass drivers (one was actually a battleship loaded with 2X fast nukes, first to go) and lost all of them. They were like giant mosquitoes. Once I had gauss cannons it became no problem at all.

posted 08-21-99 04:43 PM ET            

Don't overlook fusion beams! When researching weapon techs, I usually go straight for neutron blasters. That gives me enveloping fusion beams, which are absolutely wonderful. Think of them like miniature plasma cannons. If I have good enough computer tech or battle scanners on my ships, I use enveloping fusion beams against missiles and fighters for a long time. And they simply rule if you have to take out enemy shields.

Naturally you have to start using heavy mount early to reduce the loss of damage due to range and increasing shield tech.

I like uncreative too. The biggest goof-up in MOO2 was the mauling of research system. The on in MOO is superior in every way. There it wasn�t guaranteed that you would get important techs like scatter pack missiles through research, thus forcing one to make up different tactics for replacement.

I'm really waiting for Reach for the Stars. There hasn't been a decent space strategy game in years, which is a shame.

When on it I'd like to promote to you all another Simtex classic: Master of Magic, which is still the master of its genre. Which is an easy task because there haven't been any games like it afterwards.

You might say that Heroes of Might and Magic series is something like it, but I'd disagree. In many ways these games differ and require a different approach. Great games tho', all of them.

posted 08-22-99 02:20 AM ET            

Antarean and space monsters are immune ot Ion Weapons. Death Rays seem to work great on them.

Master of Magic is definately a woderful game. Age of Wonder might be the closest we see to MoM ever. Let's hope someone decides to make a MoM2!

I do think that the new research system of MOO2 has a backwards effect on the enjoyment of MOO2. But it does meet the demand of those that wanted more control over what they were offered to research.

posted 08-22-99 08:17 AM ET            

After reading Zorak Zoran's post, I decided to try out Uncreative-Cybernetic for a race. Not exactly no mods, but it is a 0 balance.

I noticed that Antarans come around more often, and in bigger numbers. I was hit by a group of CA/DD/DD, followed by a CA/CA/DD in 5 turns. I lost 2 planets to the Antarans before I could assemble enough ships to stop them.
Neutron Blasters no longer kill Antaran marines. This means that my old tactic would not work. However, I now have level 70 ground combat, & someone was kind enough to donate tractor beam to the cause, so I can whip up some custom ships.
Plasma Cannons do the same damage, but they are larger now. They are now a much closer race with SP AF Phasors. Against planets or Hard Shield, Plasma will be better, but in other cases above Shield 3, Phasor wins. High Energy Focus favors Plasma (higher base damage), Achilies Targeting & Structural Analyzer favor Phasor (no loss to shield).
Ion Cannon got maimed. It can no longer be heavy, which drops it back into the power rate one would expect for 1150 research.

Well, I have taken out 1 race & done 2 assists. If I can ever get a rad shield of some sort, my poulation will double since most of my planets are rad.

...

Be careful with low G. Remember that you have 10% ground combat, along with a -25% production on most planets. It may not be worth the 5 points. It does go well with Subterranean and Unified though. Unified people loose only 1/6th of their production instead of 1/4, and Subterranean adds combat defense.

Try uncreative... it restores the MOO tech style, and you get 4 points too.

Sandworm -
No, MDs are not good against Guardian... I got stuck with MDs once & needed to take out the guardian because everyone else in my area had Ground Batteries, Rad Shield, and ugly guns. I figured the Guardian would be easier than their planets. I came close... I detonated 2 of my ships to drop the front shield, and almost killed it with MDs (Hv, AF, High Energy Focus). Another 4 battleships would have broken through. A few turns later my spies stole Graviton Beam. What timing!

Watch your taxes. Taxes hurt your new & poor planets. Instead of using taxes, just keep a 0 tax rate & set some of your rich worlds to making trade goods. Taxes should only be used for emergencies, like buying bases to defeat incoming fleets, or to buy a leader.

Darkstar -
I found a tech growth pattern for creative that would pretty much let me destroy all comers. After I won a few dozen games that way, I started in a terrible spot & still won. I didn't stop using Creative because I could win... I stopped using Creative because I couldn't lose. So I started using Uncreative instead & suddenly I had to think again. I ran into interesting problems, like "How do I kill the Guardian when my weapon list is Laser, Nuke Missle, Nuke Bomb, Mass Driver, Anti-Missile Rockets and Assault Shuttles".

Uncleroggy -
I will have to go with Player2 on the weapon loadout question. Your gunboats need to have Rangemaster, Battlescanner, High Energy Focus , Achilies Targeting & Structural Analyzer (or at least whichever of those you have available). If you put missiles on a gunboat, you are wasting the power of these devices. I build the following ship types:
(Note: All ships have battle pods if I have the tech.)
Missile boats:
These are my early game work horses. They are great for killing wandering critters, and much better than gunboats in the early game.
Lots of missiles - as many as I can fit. All 2x Fst, MIRV when I get it, ARM ECCM EMG possibly later. Very few special equip on these ships... a few defensive items on CAs, but nothing on DEs or DDs.
Gun Boats:
My main game and end game work horses. I usually use BBs. TN & DS give more bang for control point, but BBs are more versitile.
Rangemaster, Battlescanner, Aug Engine, Structural Analyzer, High Energy Focus , Achilies Targeting, Timewarp, Inertial Stab/Nul; whatever I've got, they get it. They have a primary gun bank of my current big ugly gun. If I have Ion Cannon or Graviton Beam, that may get put in as a secondary battery. Then, I have some point defense guns.
Planetary Assault:
If I don't have a beam that will break through my opponents planetary shields, I will send one or two of these along. Usual size is CA or BB. (The other reason I make these if if my ship killers can kill a size 4 planet in 1 shot.)
Aug Engine, Cloak/Phase cloak, Inertial Stab/Nul, assorted ECM, teleporter ,Hv Armor, Reinforce Str, Timewarp, assorted Shields, lots of bombs or missiles depending on opponent screen level. Lots of point defense.
Planetary Conversion:
1 per battlegroup. Size is TI or DS. Replaces Planetary assault.
Same specials as Planetary assault, but no cloaking or teleporter. 1-3 Stellar converters & lots of point defense. SCs will be in groups of 1 SC each to allow single SC to fire on a target.
Ship assault:
I keep a few of these around the center of my empire. When they can make it to a visiting Antaran group in time, they do so. Size is BB or TI.
Troop Pods, Aug Engine, Inerital Stab/Nul, Hv Armor, security stations, ECM, Timewarp. Neutron blasters or Death ray. Enough to kill marines without killing the enemy. 6 tractor beams will halt any ship. Sometimes I use assault shuttles, but mostly I use transporters or just go up to the ship.
Brick:
If you play +50 defense, trans dimentional, & cybernetic, you can make a Brick. If your defense is high enough, these things work great. 1-2 can kill an entire fleet as long as you take out the stellar converters first.
Aug Engine, Heavy Armor, Reinforce Str, Inertial Nul/Stab, biggest ECM, Hard Shield, Auto Repair. Give it a big enough gun to kill a few ships a turn, & lots of point defense.

Jaechdan -
If I don't use dictatorship, I usually use Unified. Democracy has lots of money & science, but I am not usually short money, and I can lag a little on science. Unified allows me to jump start planets, since I have no morale requirements.
Dictatorship is also good due to the increased control points later on.

posted 08-23-99 06:38 AM ET            

It's interesting that Empath is still using Ion Pulse Cannon in late game, because I've recently been contemplating the viability of that.

It seems to me that there are two reasons why IPC is less effective against rival empires as the game advances: stronger shields (which IPC cannot penetrate, so it becomes useless as the primary weapon), and stronger armor (so that internal systems become harder to damage).

But stronger internal systems are countracted by being able to fit more IPCs as they shrink and as we use bigger ships.

And the stronger shields can be breached with weapons specially designed to do that, so the shield-breachers become the primary weapon - so don't use SP phasors for this role! Then Heavy Armor and Reinforced Hull will obstruct many weapons (the AP mod is useless, and AF weapons will still have some work ahead of them), but not the IPC which bypasses both armor and structure, to destroy the internal systems that magnify the counter-punch threat to your fleet, and to blow up the engines of the enemy ships.

If you can breach, even momentarily, the shields of many enemy ships, then a few batteries of IPCs will make short work of them no matter how strong their armor class.

So this the shield-breacher/IPC design is one that should be favored by fleets with high initiative, facing foes with superior armor and weapons.

As Empath mentioned, it's so much fun watching enemy ships explode, so both EMG missiles and IPC are just wonderful in this way.

The added benefit of IPC is seeing an externally intact enemy starbase packed with defensive top-class marines sitting as a helpless hulk with all its weapons systems blown away.

Early rush: this can be commenced with either modified missiles or all-mod laser boats, starting around turn 50 in a Huge galaxy: your first conquest should be a high production race, such as Sakkra, Silicoid, Klackon or Trilarian. If you're very close to Mentar, you might be able to catch the Psilons before they get Heavy Armor, otherwise leave them alone for a bit.

Recent favorite legal races to play as:

(1) Spymasters: Dictatorship, +20 Spy, Telepathic, Charismatic; negatives and additional positives to taste.

This race lacks the Darloks' stealthy ships, but it more than makes up for it by out-spying them (Telepathy), and by being very good at diplomacy (Telepathy plus Charm) the AI races soon forgive your indiscretions.

Also since Charm gives better cheaper leaders, there's a chance of getting Assassins.

Sometimes I add Transdimensional to reach other races faster. Another option is +1 Production and Rich Home World to colonise more quickly so that you encounter other races sooner.

For the stay-at-home researcher, afraid of being attacked before ready to retaliate, and afraid of valuable techs being stolen, opening diplomatic relations is something to delay. But for the Spymasters, it's absolutely the first goal of the game to make the acquaintance of as many empires as possible.

(2) Trademasters: there are differing opinions on the best trade race. The obvious choice is Democracy/Fantastic Traders/+2 Money, but Oleg on the Science Fiction and Fantasy network pointed out to me that the easiest (non-cheating) way to make money is by having high production and building Trade Goods, so a Unification/Fantastic Traders/+2 Production race will do significantly better.

Btw, the cheating way to make money is to constantly refit empty frigates, to exploit MOO2's double accounting loophole - but that's a chore.

With a Trademaster race, it's useful to gain trading agreements, so Charismatic may be handy, or Transdimensional.

posted 08-23-99 07:25 AM ET            

SMAC has mainly powers of the government. If you take over one of Miriam's colonies, everyone in that colony will go from being a poluting elite technophobe to a UoP carefree researcher. The entire colony will instantly change it's way of life to suit the needs and desires of your government.

MOO2 has both powers of the people and powers of the government. This introduces some new tactics when trading for or taking new colonies.

Powers of the people:
+/- Production +/- food +/- growth +/- science
Tolerant Lithovore Aquatic

Powers of the government
Government (of course)
+/- money +/- ship combat +/- ground combat +/- spy
(un)creative repulsive Charismatic Telepathic Trans-dimentional Stealth Ships Warlord

Combined powers
hi/lo Grav Prod mod = people, combat = government
Subterranean Extra pop = people, combat = government
Cybernetic Food = people, combat = government

HW powers only apply to a single planet (Large/poor/rich/art)

This can bring interesting tactics into play... For example, anyone can get the extra population of Subterranean... Take or trade to get a planet of Subterranean people. Because the extra pop is a power of the people, those people will still be Subterranean in your culture. Send one to each of your planets & watch your pop start growing again.
In addition to increasing population of non-terran/gaia worlds, Tolerant people also reduce polution. A few of them can be as good as a polution processor.
Lithovores and cybernetic races can increase a planet's resistance to blockades. If you don't have to feed your people, they can keep researching.

Consider... if you are playing a +money Democracy, you can take over some +production planets, & start spreading people around. In addition to their own +production they will gain your Democracy and money bonus. On the other hand, if you are a +2 production subterranean race, you might want to send your own people to those +50 attack +50 defense planets you took over.

posted 08-23-99 01:02 PM ET            

If you take over a lithovore planet, you can ship out that lith to other planets. That immigrant lith will then eat rock in place of those OTHER non-liths, and that is one people less food that planet has to have.

Mind you, without the mix alien facilities present on that planet, you take a hit overall, so its often not worth it.

MoO2 does keep track of the differences of the people. But the draw backs are: All new colonies are of your master race, no matter who builds the colony ship... Open spots on worlds will fill with master race, without any present to begin with. Suck enough Psilons off of Mentar, and your race has a chance to pop in the spot. This is very noticable with +growth master races on -growth subjegated races planets.

Empath, I look down on people that use 2x missile shot boats about the way it sounds you are looking down on me. I can't lose with that strategy, no matter other conditions. (It's the first all-time winning element I discovered in the original MOO and still true of MOO2) And since Missiles are a tech that most races take, you research something else (unless forced due to uncreative) and double the bang for your buck (gain their missiles by Spy/Trade/Spoils). As I said, I can win with everything, so I have gone to simply playing whatever I feel like when I start up MoO2. If it's uncreative repulsive, that's what I play. If its Sub Creative Low G, that's what I play. I enjoy the various path's of MoO2 victory (peaceful, sneaky, and war in all their conbiminations), and the various ways to play MoO2 itself. But just starting the game, I know I have already won. It's merely a question of turns played, and the fun I will have playing.

posted 08-23-99 05:18 PM ET            

The following is a forwarding of info from Chagarra. Some of you might wish to check out the STARS! website. They have an 80 turn demo(1.5MB). It's essentially a spreadsheet game, but I'd love to see if we could get a group together for some multiplay(PBEM). Seems pretty simple.

the site is:

www.webmap.com/stars/

Sorry, I'm not a tech guy so I don't know how to import the link(or whatever it is).

In addition, SSI will be releasing Reach for the Stars this fall and the STARS! people will be releasing Stars Supernova early next year. Seems to me that many of us will be satisfying our TBS needs in space for awhile.

posted 08-25-99 05:39 PM ET            

For example, stellar converters will do 1600 points against an unscreened planet, 1540 against a mid screen planet, and 1480 against a full screen planet.
Plasma cannon damage varies greatly. A plasma cannon (Hv, High energy focus) will do around 132 to an unscreened planet, 72 to a mid screen planet, and possibly as high as 12 to a high screen planet.

Why is this useful?

posted 09-11-99 09:36 PM ET         

In the late game, use tractor beams to capture the Antaren Ships and then take the ship to a starbase and reverse engineer it. The Antarens have techs that you can not research and techs not even the Gaurdians have.

The other secret in late game is to not use stellar converters. The best weapon is actually Phasors. When all the weapon techs are discovered, you will get all the upgrades to Phasors, like armor piercing, sheild piercing, auto guns (shoots 3 lasers) and the other improvements, like heavy phasors. Put these upgrades on your phasors, and they will be about 3 times as powerfull as stellar converters. For you can only put 1 stellar converter on a ship, but about 100 or more phasors in the same space with the upgrades.

The other bonus of this too is that a stellar converter is often over kill. It will do often many times the amount of damage that the ship can take.

In a multiplayer game, we waited unti the end to have big epic battles. We got all the techs and made about 50 Death Stars and 200 Titan class ships per side + about 500 Battle ships and small ships, so many infact, that only about 1/2 of each of our fleets was allowed in the battle, as there was only so much room allowed for ships.

What happened was that he used stellar converters on I saw that his ships didnt have hard shields (if they have hard shields, the phasors are worthless then). So i made my ships with the phasors and then we had our battle.

One of his Death Stars or titans would fire the stellar converter and kill 1 of my ships (wether it was a Death Star or titan, it was dead), often with overkill. I would then have my turn, and one take 1 titan, packed with phasors and kill about 3 Death stars with it. 1 of my Death Stars would kill 5 of his Death Stars.

So you can see that the highest tech level weapons are not always the best.

posted 09-12-99 09:31 AM ET            

Add. notes on mixing populations:
If you do not build the Alien Control Center, you will suffer a -20 morale penalty. Thus, if you don't have this tech be careful where you relocate captured populations, & if you do have it remember to go back & build them after you add a second race at a planet.
Unified races do not suffer this penalty.

Note that adding Subterranean races is always a good thing. The extra population makes up for the reduced morale, and you also get extra taxes. Likewise, adding Tolerant races to Toxic planets is always a good thing.

posted 09-12-99 07:54 PM ET         

This time I opted for the Mshrran "Kitties" (they kinda reminded me of Kilrathi) and set the difficulty to "hard" with a huge galaxy. Ironically, though, while the Mshrran have an initial edge over other races in space combat, I had steered away from waging war early on and chose to build & consolidate within a select number of planets. This is in keeping with Darkstar's earlier assertion of not trying the "Early Rush" to win, and early rushes just don't work with the larger galaxies and larger number of races anyway.

That is one of the most refreshing elements of MOO2 to me---you can choose your race or "build your own", you can set the galaxy size and the number of other races, but from there on, the random arrangements are infinite. You don't know who your opponents are right at game start, and you don't know what each star system holds in planets (unless you're Elerian). Each star system having a random number of planets and planet types was a MAJOR improvement over MOO.

Eventually, I bumped into all of the other races in this particular game---Klackons, Gnolams, Elerians, Meklars, and Darloks. The Elerians were the first to go, quickly being exterminated by the Klackons. And the Antarans made their usual cameo appearances too.

Regardless of what other people have asserted earlier, I just don't think that in the early stages of development, even battlestations and missile bases are enough to deal with Antarans. When they pick a planet to beat up in the early/mid game stages, that planet is gonna be leveled. So my response was to keep my ships away, evacuate all of the colonists that I could, and demolish the high-value buildings so to get back SOME "trade-in" value. (Only one structure can be demolished per turn.) After the Antarans destroyed the colony, I sent in a new colony ship to start over, and brought back the colonists that moved out earlier.

That is the first thing I would like to see fixed if there was ever a "MOO3". Right now, the mysterious Antarans play too much the role of random psycotic terrorists in spite of their tremendous technological superiority. They warp in, waste a planet colony, warp out. It would kinda be nice to have the possiblity to communicate with the Antarans in a similar way as with other races, even allowing that all the races are regarded as roaches to them. Perhaps if the Antarans first made an extravagent demand on you and you accepted, you could buy off their aggression for a short time, or maybe even sic them on another select race.

Well, the Klackons were pretty much steamrolling the other races, and were WAY ahead of all others in population, fleet size, & technology. So I bided my time and maintained treaties with those Bugs while my researchers tried vainly at catch-up. The Meklars were the next race to get wiped, which is ironic given that they got to Orion first.

Eventually, the Klackons got pissed with me on their claims of espionage & sabotage and declared war on me. Recall that the Darloks are also a race in this specific game? They kept framing me for their deeds.

So the Klackons came at me soon enough with a HUGE fleet---about 16 Doom Stars, 25 Titans, & 20 battleships. (OH Shhhhheeeeeeiiiittttt.) My total fleet mustered 4 Doom Stars (two of them just hurried off the production line with a "scramble" purchase), 6 Titans, and 20 battleships. Rather daunting odds, but several of my recent battleships were loaded with a little ace in the hole.

Well, as the showdown battle started, I sent ahead several "Trojan Horse" ships by themselves that were loaded only with quantum detonators. But that plan proved a turkey as the Klackons blasted them apart from far range with heavy Gauss cannons. Then the Klackons moved ahead, concentrating their remaining fire on my colony's battlestation and quickly destroyed that too.

The next turn was when I dropped the other shoe and sent forward my next set of "specialty" battleships. These buggers loaded 2-3 statis fields, so in one turn, I had put the majority of the Klackons into "statis". The remaining free Klackons put up a savage fight, but after they were all destroyed or captured, I clinched the battle. I released only a few Klackon ships each turn, zapped them with death rays to kill their marines, and boarded if they didn't self-detonate first. My fleet gained 12 Doom Stars and 15 Titans as a result, with the added surprise that the enemy crew rating (mostly elite or ultra-elite) transferred over too.

(I should rename the colony of this battle as "New Agincourt".)

The point to all this is that some technologies can be EXTREMELY potent without even having to be a weapon. I think that "stasis field" is one of those technologies that should be a heck of a lot more hard to research, or available only as an Orion technology. Another is "artificial planet construction." This technology is a powerful empire builder, and should take up a lot more research & manufacturing resources than the present case. Perhaps this should've also been an Orion technology too.

The game is still ongoing, and the Klackons have since been beaten down by me into secondary status. I might even offer peace terms for a short time with them, hehehehe. After repeated framings by the Darloks, I will soon turn on them with demands.

posted 09-14-99 02:03 PM ET            

The quick rush strategy is quite easy and enjoyable.

I take huge, max players, organic rich, medium startup, antarens attack, hard or impossible(I usually take hard, but play against better races I made with melting pot).

First take Subterranean, Telepathic, Cybernetic, +10 SPY, and large HW. Low G, -1/2 food, and -10 Ground combat.

Research reinforced hull, Auto factories, hydro farm, research lab, soil E, neural scanner, supercomputer.

After that you can work on getting techs for your first ship. In any order you want Battle pods, class 1 shields, fusion rifle, battle scanner. If you are in a dense cluster or you can get deuterium cells get tritanium too.

Then you can build your first warship. A cruiser with battle pods, reinforced hull, battle scanner, 2 HV, AP, AF, CO, NR lasers and 4 PD, AF, CO lasers. While building this research fusion drive.

This costs a little more than a colony ship but will get you more colonies than a colony ship.

You will notice I didn't say what to be building or doing in the meantime, that's because it depends a lot on what you discover. If you have a bunch of large gaia rich planets near you, take them. If somebody is stealing techs build spies.

Things to try and trade for. Heavy armor, one of Tritanium/deu fuel cells, tac communications. They usually want supercomputer for some of these, give it. The computer cheats so bad you won't notice that it gets extra tech.

So you built your first ship. Now look for a target. If one of the computer players has declared war on you and they are close great. But your ideal target should not have any planet defences. In almost all games one of your neighbours will not have any. Just sit back and watch your cruiser use the NR, AP, and AF abilities shred SB's. Most enemy ships will blow up with one shot from your lasers, but concentrate on the SB first as it could have good missiles. After the SB fires it's first round move up just a little bit. This will stagger the arrival of the missles, important since you auto-repair with your cybernetic ability.

After you build that first ship research spaceport and robo miners. Then neutron blaster and planetary grav generator. When you get the more advanced physics add more HV lasers to your cruiser. If you have the extra production make a battleship, same design concept although I usually add a couple Fx CO neutron blaster. It helps with missles and in capturing ships. Usually when I am almost finished with a race another one will declare war on me breaking the treaties we had.

Possible problems with this plan:
All possible enemies have missile base or fighter garrison.
Solution:
You need more ships. To be really sure build a cruiser with x2 missles and hit the planet. Build a ship with only PD and regular fire CO beams (Anti-missile rockets if you have them) to shoot down stuff.

Other things of note. You should try and make trade and research deals with everybody. If your best target is dealing with you, force a war. Ask for concessions, systems, techs, whatever. Eventually they will turn on you and it's better if you have all of their planets when that time comes

This should provide a win by 3524-3525 using only lasers. Although I usually build a phaser ship near the end which doesn't see combat.

posted 09-14-99 02:38 PM ET            

In a medium sized galaxy and playing Aggressor from the start, I won't ever SEE Autorepair (unless I get that leader with it), or Supercomputer!

If I sit back and follow tech to industry booster (Robo-Miners and what not) and THEN go to war, then, yeah... but...

Using Telepathic, you only need a hull in orbit to take a world. Depending on neighbors and seeding, this can be a LOT of plucking of colonies, making Engine speed and Range top priorities. And using OUTPOST ships to extend your reach early helps tremendously (remember, outpost can go places not useful to colonizing, and you can always send colony ships later). It's possible to TAKE a home world early, as many times enemy ships are away exploring and no missile bases are yet built.

Waiting reduces your chances of early power grabs. I'd say the only problem with such things are that you are a Hollow empire... no filler until LATER, when you can start filling in the hulls with significant weapons.

If you are making a hull, don't bother with battle pods. They raise initial cost. You can refit the hull later with them, when you turn it from a heart taker (Cheap as possible capital hull), to a butt kicker (a true warship).

posted 09-14-99 05:40 PM ET            

Second, while it's true that a hull will take a planet I have found that a computer player can build a SB on even a tiny ultra poor planet REAL fast you need something to take a SB and the computers fleet.

As for supercomputer, I agree that in a medium galaxy going aggressive you wouldn't go for it, but my example was for a huge galaxy. I also agree that my strategy is a little slow to get going, but the little extra time pays off if somebody develops class 5 shields or neutronium armor while you are attacking them.

posted 09-15-99 03:44 AM ET            

On a HUGE map, even being aggressive, yeah, the distance factor keeps you from being able to rush them with captial hulls, unless they are seeded close to you, or there are lots of convient wormholes available. (I dislike wormholes. I think they are only there to as an aid to the HUMAN player... I haven't seen the computer take advantage of them except by accident (the allied with the intervening factions, er, races and just happened to settle a star that has a wormhole back to their empire).

Personally, I don't think Cybernetic is worth the cost, but my prefered strategies aren't optimized for it, so that's no surprise.

posted 09-15-99 12:26 PM ET            

Sigh, now I am going to have to start another game. I think I will try that creative feudalism mentioned. I haven't played either of those for a long time.

posted 09-15-99 01:31 PM ET            

It's probably more of playstyles. After all, the Rnd() function is going to use the same distribution of semi-random points for both machines, only the seed number would be different.

For gaining tech by conquest, well developed (lots of infrastructure) or high population worlds = better chance at gaining new tech.

For STEALING tech, that's a matter of dedicated spys and what tech toys you take to boost your spying rate.

So I would suggest you look at how your friend tends to play, and look at how you tend to play. It sounds like you build up and then get out there, giving the computer players a chance to build up... thus you tend to get the available techs through conquest.

Your friend may be using spys earlier and more often than you, and thus succeeds more often. Especially if he is taking all spy related techs over other tech choices.

-Darkstar