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Author Topic:   The Irony of SMAC Patch v4.0

tfs99 posted 08-05-99 07:27 PM ET
We squealed and squealed about the now infamous missile bug.
Patch v4.0 fixed this bug at first glance. But did it?
I got clobbered by a Hive missile in Hi-Tech #1 the turn it was built. Yes, the Hive was pacted with other AI factions that had bases close enough.
The only problem? The base where the missile was built was about 40 squares from my base that it hit!
So ...
the bug is still in there! Not quite as devestating as before, but still there.
Ah well. At least they tried.
SMAX n ... Ted S.
Darkstar posted 08-05-99 07:30 PM ET
LOL!
Ted, you just KNOW that they are going to ask if Aredhran built the scenario under version 4, and are you running version 4? I mean, all bugs are really just a user misinterpretation of how the game is suppose to work.
-Darkstar
Colon posted 08-05-99 08:09 PM ET
Yeah it's the configuration, and since I've that bug too it probably means that tfs99 and I have the exact same PC's with the exact same configuration.
Analyst posted 08-05-99 11:26 PM ET
What can you do but laugh about this one at this point? At least I'm less sorry now that I had to uninstall patch 4.0. I'll likely be uninstalling the whole sorry mess of a game soon.
This is not genuinely related to the top post, but close enough for jazz: I just now found out that there is a foolproof cheat for Civ II that allows people to hack the amount of coin in a multiplayer game on the fly without being detected. That pretty much kills my interest in multiplayer Civ II now.
Why mention that here? Well, the unlimited range missile bug always reminds me that the backbone of SMAC simply has to be CIV II code (unlimited range missiles and all--hey, sure I believe it's not the same game; just a coincidence it has the same bugs, er, features, er, must be my system config, right?). A dime'll get you a dollar that the same programming feature that was exploited to create the CIV II hack is in SMAC and that the SMAC "unlimited energy hack" won't take very long to become a common concern.
Not that I ever thought that multiplay SMAC would be viable through those cumbersome time-consuming features, anyway, but the liklihood of a multiplay cheat showing up is just the icing on the cake for me.
Looks like I gotta find me a new way to waste my time (or perhaps re-up my registration at ICC and return to the old ways).
Darkstar posted 08-06-99 12:16 AM ET
I understand Starcraft and Stars! are big, Analyst. Maybe one of the two would catch your interest?
Or you could just put Civ back on to your system, and enjoy the original Chariot Rush.
I'd recommend Railrood Tycoon 2 and Rollercoaster Tycoon for games to goof off with.
-Darkstar
tfs99 posted 08-06-99 01:12 AM ET
Well ...
I was just fiddling with the S.E. to see if I could recreate the dreaded missile bug in its new form.
Guess what? It's still there in its old form!!!
That's right! I plunked down two Morgan bases and one Hive base, gave Hivey a missile, revealed the map where Morgan was, put down a Hive Scout Patrol next to a Morgan base and BAM!
Hivey declares Vendetta and launches infinite range missile at Morgan.
It doesn't happen all the time though. I got it to do it twice but in the two attempts I made I could not save the .SC and get it to reoccur. I'll try again sometime when I am motivated.
But, read it and weep. Infinite range missile is still with us.
SMAX n ... Ted S.
Shining1 posted 08-06-99 04:29 AM ET
Analyst: Have you tried HoMMIII yet?
Analyst posted 08-06-99 08:44 AM ET
Tfs99, that is so sad. This method of checking for the missile bug has been posted and reposted and reposted. This is the second bogus claim that the bug has been fixed in a patch. I can't believe that no one at QA has 15 minutes to set up the scenario editor and see if the fix really worked this time. Astonishingly bad form.
Alternate theory: The *bug* is buried so deep in the bowels of the CivII legacy code, they just can't root it out without causing more problems than they'd cure. As a result, their "fix" was to alter something about AI behavior to try to keep it from long range missile launching, even though it can. That could explain your difficulty in reliably replicating the out of range launch on saving and reloading the scenario. The beauty of this fix-that's-not-a-fix is that the difficulty of inconsistent replication will allow Firaxis to perpetually duck the issue from this point forward. In Cartman's world that would be "Swe-e-e-e-e-e-t!"
Darkstar, is it the case that there are no cheats/hacks for playing those games multiplayer? Don't want to waste my time. Worst waste of time ever: thinking that experimenting with an RTS would be fun, bought Red Alert, familiarized myself with the interface, and registered at the Westwood site for multiplay. Quickly discovered that cheat hacks are so common that you'll be lucky if 50% of the games you played online were honest. Ugh. Gave the game away.
So, if Analyst has only time for one new game (and he does), which should it be guys: RR Tycoon? HOMMIII? Starcraft? MOO? Something else? Not looking for a guarantee. Just what you think is my best bet.
Beta1 posted 08-06-99 11:40 AM ET
Analyst - I rather liked outcast, its not remotely strategy related but its the most cinematic game I've ever played ( and I mean that as a completment) + it cured my stategy addiction
Zorak Zoran posted 08-06-99 02:29 PM ET
HOMIII is cartoony, and the AI is mindbogglingly easy to manipulate.
RR Tycoon is ok if you're into that sort of economic min/maxing.
I really enjoyed Starcraft, and hacks are rare outside of "Ladder" games. Also, it's been out long enough that the skill of the average player has gone way up.
As for Master of Orion, I have enjoyed many many hours of fun with that game. Of all those on the list, MOO2 is the one I recommend.
Darkstar posted 08-07-99 04:48 AM ET
I'd say get the demos of everything and try them out. Anything can be MP'd hacked. Some are just easier than others. Depends on how well structured the game was, among other things. And a walk through the matching services and usenet groups might reveal the tricks without much work. I don't do much MP, for the fact that I need to go to bed SOMETIME.
Not trying to duck out on you, but I know I can write programs to do all sorts of things, which means others can and will be more talented than I at it. It's just a question of who has written what, or who has discovered what "undocumented feature" in the game to cheat. Same story, different game. (Another reason I am not motivated to play strangers... I hate cheaters... spoil my fun...)
-Darkstar
Darkstar posted 08-10-99 02:03 PM ET
Just bubbling this up in support of another thread for tfs...
-Darkstar
player2 posted 08-10-99 09:10 PM ET
Analyst:
If you've got ANY builder in you, I highly reccommend RRTycoon. Great game, and I also found some of its nuances to be applicable in "builder" tactics for Civ and SMAC.
MOO2 is also great; I just picked up a copy for 13$ the other day at the advice of Darkstar, and I'm very pleased. Its pretty old-school, but the design is very very good.
And I haven't found any bugs (yet)
Starcrap: If you've already tried RA, don't waste your time with this one. The story line/cutscenes are really neat, but tactics are very basic and rush oriented, and will insult the intelligence of any RA veteran.
HOMMIII: Never tried it.
MikeH II posted 08-11-99 08:45 AM ET
I've never cheated in an on-line game, there's no point. I want to beat someone through skill not cheating. There are honest people out there Analyst. I played a lot of RA and C&C over a serial link that was great fun. Ach well, I'm sure people will always try and cheat, I'm just too trusting.
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Author	Topic: The Irony of SMAC Patch v4.0
tfs99	posted 08-05-99 07:27 PM ET We squealed and squealed about the now infamous missile bug. Patch v4.0 fixed this bug at first glance. But did it? I got clobbered by a Hive missile in Hi-Tech #1 the turn it was built. Yes, the Hive was pacted with other AI factions that had bases close enough. The only problem? The base where the missile was built was about 40 squares from my base that it hit! So ... the bug is still in there! Not quite as devestating as before, but still there. Ah well. At least they tried. SMAX n ... Ted S.
Darkstar	posted 08-05-99 07:30 PM ET LOL! Ted, you just KNOW that they are going to ask if Aredhran built the scenario under version 4, and are you running version 4? I mean, all bugs are really just a user misinterpretation of how the game is suppose to work. -Darkstar
Colon	posted 08-05-99 08:09 PM ET Yeah it's the configuration, and since I've that bug too it probably means that tfs99 and I have the exact same PC's with the exact same configuration.
Analyst	posted 08-05-99 11:26 PM ET What can you do but laugh about this one at this point? At least I'm less sorry now that I had to uninstall patch 4.0. I'll likely be uninstalling the whole sorry mess of a game soon. This is not genuinely related to the top post, but close enough for jazz: I just now found out that there is a foolproof cheat for Civ II that allows people to hack the amount of coin in a multiplayer game on the fly without being detected. That pretty much kills my interest in multiplayer Civ II now. Why mention that here? Well, the unlimited range missile bug always reminds me that the backbone of SMAC simply has to be CIV II code (unlimited range missiles and all--hey, sure I believe it's not the same game; just a coincidence it has the same bugs, er, features, er, must be my system config, right?). A dime'll get you a dollar that the same programming feature that was exploited to create the CIV II hack is in SMAC and that the SMAC "unlimited energy hack" won't take very long to become a common concern. Not that I ever thought that multiplay SMAC would be viable through those cumbersome time-consuming features, anyway, but the liklihood of a multiplay cheat showing up is just the icing on the cake for me. Looks like I gotta find me a new way to waste my time (or perhaps re-up my registration at ICC and return to the old ways).
Darkstar	posted 08-06-99 12:16 AM ET I understand Starcraft and Stars! are big, Analyst. Maybe one of the two would catch your interest? Or you could just put Civ back on to your system, and enjoy the original Chariot Rush. I'd recommend Railrood Tycoon 2 and Rollercoaster Tycoon for games to goof off with. -Darkstar
tfs99	posted 08-06-99 01:12 AM ET Well ... I was just fiddling with the S.E. to see if I could recreate the dreaded missile bug in its new form. Guess what? It's still there in its old form!!! That's right! I plunked down two Morgan bases and one Hive base, gave Hivey a missile, revealed the map where Morgan was, put down a Hive Scout Patrol next to a Morgan base and BAM! Hivey declares Vendetta and launches infinite range missile at Morgan. It doesn't happen all the time though. I got it to do it twice but in the two attempts I made I could not save the .SC and get it to reoccur. I'll try again sometime when I am motivated. But, read it and weep. Infinite range missile is still with us. SMAX n ... Ted S.
Shining1	posted 08-06-99 04:29 AM ET Analyst: Have you tried HoMMIII yet?
Analyst	posted 08-06-99 08:44 AM ET Tfs99, that is so sad. This method of checking for the missile bug has been posted and reposted and reposted. This is the second bogus claim that the bug has been fixed in a patch. I can't believe that no one at QA has 15 minutes to set up the scenario editor and see if the fix really worked this time. Astonishingly bad form. Alternate theory: The bug is buried so deep in the bowels of the CivII legacy code, they just can't root it out without causing more problems than they'd cure. As a result, their "fix" was to alter something about AI behavior to try to keep it from long range missile launching, even though it can. That could explain your difficulty in reliably replicating the out of range launch on saving and reloading the scenario. The beauty of this fix-that's-not-a-fix is that the difficulty of inconsistent replication will allow Firaxis to perpetually duck the issue from this point forward. In Cartman's world that would be "Swe-e-e-e-e-e-t!" Darkstar, is it the case that there are no cheats/hacks for playing those games multiplayer? Don't want to waste my time. Worst waste of time ever: thinking that experimenting with an RTS would be fun, bought Red Alert, familiarized myself with the interface, and registered at the Westwood site for multiplay. Quickly discovered that cheat hacks are so common that you'll be lucky if 50% of the games you played online were honest. Ugh. Gave the game away. So, if Analyst has only time for one new game (and he does), which should it be guys: RR Tycoon? HOMMIII? Starcraft? MOO? Something else? Not looking for a guarantee. Just what you think is my best bet.
Beta1	posted 08-06-99 11:40 AM ET Analyst - I rather liked outcast, its not remotely strategy related but its the most cinematic game I've ever played ( and I mean that as a completment) + it cured my stategy addiction
Zorak Zoran	posted 08-06-99 02:29 PM ET HOMIII is cartoony, and the AI is mindbogglingly easy to manipulate. RR Tycoon is ok if you're into that sort of economic min/maxing. I really enjoyed Starcraft, and hacks are rare outside of "Ladder" games. Also, it's been out long enough that the skill of the average player has gone way up. As for Master of Orion, I have enjoyed many many hours of fun with that game. Of all those on the list, MOO2 is the one I recommend.
Darkstar	posted 08-07-99 04:48 AM ET I'd say get the demos of everything and try them out. Anything can be MP'd hacked. Some are just easier than others. Depends on how well structured the game was, among other things. And a walk through the matching services and usenet groups might reveal the tricks without much work. I don't do much MP, for the fact that I need to go to bed SOMETIME. Not trying to duck out on you, but I know I can write programs to do all sorts of things, which means others can and will be more talented than I at it. It's just a question of who has written what, or who has discovered what "undocumented feature" in the game to cheat. Same story, different game. (Another reason I am not motivated to play strangers... I hate cheaters... spoil my fun...) -Darkstar
Darkstar	posted 08-10-99 02:03 PM ET Just bubbling this up in support of another thread for tfs... -Darkstar
player2	posted 08-10-99 09:10 PM ET Analyst: If you've got ANY builder in you, I highly reccommend RRTycoon. Great game, and I also found some of its nuances to be applicable in "builder" tactics for Civ and SMAC. MOO2 is also great; I just picked up a copy for 13$ the other day at the advice of Darkstar, and I'm very pleased. Its pretty old-school, but the design is very very good. And I haven't found any bugs (yet) Starcrap: If you've already tried RA, don't waste your time with this one. The story line/cutscenes are really neat, but tactics are very basic and rush oriented, and will insult the intelligence of any RA veteran. HOMMIII: Never tried it.
MikeH II	posted 08-11-99 08:45 AM ET I've never cheated in an on-line game, there's no point. I want to beat someone through skill not cheating. There are honest people out there Analyst. I played a lot of RA and C&C over a serial link that was great fun. Ach well, I'm sure people will always try and cheat, I'm just too trusting.