Why no disengage function for non-combat Units ?

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Author Topic:   Why no disengage function for non-combat Units ?

Spartan Sergeant posted 07-27-99 05:29 PM ET
OK, here's the problem:
I usually spend soem more resources to build Rover Formers.
However, when these are attacked by Mind worms (grrr!!) they just sit there and die ..
Why don't they disengage like the combat units ?

korn469 posted 07-27-99 05:44 PM ET
good idea!
SMAniaC posted 07-27-99 05:47 PM ET
Perhaps because formers are just automatic machines, not controlled by humans ( got that idea from the story "Bright Beginnings" on Apolyton ). They aren't programmed to detect worms and run away.
On the other side, if my explanation is true, why would the Mindworms attack that machines, cause
"The Mindworm seeks out concentrations of sentient mental energy and destroyes them, ruthlessly and efficiently." According to the psionic explanation on ACOL machines wouldn't have psi mental energy. So they don't need to be destroyed. Unless off course sentient computers/formers also have psi force. But sentient AI doesn't exist in the beginning of the game... There isn't an explanation I guess. Just one more bug to add to the list.
SMAniaC
playing to much SMAC according to the "How do I know if I play too much SMAC" thread ( I can quote certain things ).
Spartan Sergeant posted 07-27-99 06:34 PM ET
SManiaC,
Thanks for your insights.
Just happened to me again.. beautiful island-continent, but drew a few xenofungal blooms (I hate those!) and was busy clearing up when the worms started popping up everywhere. Lost 4 Rover Formers in 2 turns.
That *hurts*
[Side note: evn if they were normal formers, it'd still have hurt]
Zoetrope posted 07-29-99 06:25 AM ET
Spartan Sergeant: when you can, put Trance and the Cheapest Armor on one former in each group. The Armor is solely to remove the -50% non-combat penalty. When a worm shoes up, stack the Trance Armored (TA) Former with the ones that look threatened. Most times, the worm will die.
Sometimes, a few cheaply Armored Formers can fend off conventional attacks.
Hmm, can you armor Supply units? I'd love to give them AAA.
Question: What determines which special abilities can be added to which units? Is that customisable?
Tokek Belerang posted 07-29-99 09:50 AM ET
Come to think of it, formers shouldn't have a "disengage" function, they should have a "run like hell" function. But the synthmetal/trance combo does indeed work, if you have the time to huddle all the other ones underneath.
Later,
Kek
MajiK6pt5 posted 07-30-99 02:17 AM ET
i think that the disengage function means that the unit runs away while being fired upon and returning fire
in a modern war situation you can't just run away if the opponent has spotted you because he will have long enough range to destroy you
on the other hand if you can assign several men (units; each unit is actually several hundred units, right?) to be martyrs and hold off the enemy to let the rest escape, then it is plausible...
formers can't fire back, that's why they can't disengage (that would be like pressing the self destruct option)
although, then, i wonder how do they defend? i guess people on board have hand guns or something?!?
Spartan Sergeant posted 07-30-99 05:31 PM ET
MajiK, accordign to your logic, NO unit should be able to disengage.
Dig this:
I had my Rover Formers on Auto.
One runs into a Mind worm (and, of course, sullenly stands there, moved, waitign for destruction, and another one MOVES RIGHT UP NEXT TO IT!!!!
"Disengage" is desribed as a fasrter unit outrunning a slower one ... my Rover Formers are DEFINITELY faster than the Mind Worm Boils.
So again I ask, why no disengage for NC units.
SMAniaC posted 07-31-99 03:44 PM ET
Because SMAC sucks!
(on certain points)
Spartan Sergeant posted 07-31-99 04:30 PM ET
Sucks, no.
Has room for improvement, yes.
This is one litle bit which could definitely use improvement, IMHO.
Hmm.. SMACX maybe ? (Yeah, right. Dream on)
MajiK6pt5 posted 08-01-99 01:19 AM ET
Spartan Seargent, did u read my answer carefully enough? The mind worms will kill all of the former crew before they can escape. Although, I don't make full sense of it either...
Spartan Sergeant posted 08-01-99 05:39 AM ET
Majik,
if that's the case, why can my lowly Recon Rover, with FAR less crew requirement, with equal speed, disengage ?
No offense, just curious ...
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Author	Topic: Why no disengage function for non-combat Units ?
Spartan Sergeant	posted 07-27-99 05:29 PM ET OK, here's the problem: I usually spend soem more resources to build Rover Formers. However, when these are attacked by Mind worms (grrr!!) they just sit there and die .. Why don't they disengage like the combat units ?
korn469	posted 07-27-99 05:44 PM ET good idea!
SMAniaC	posted 07-27-99 05:47 PM ET Perhaps because formers are just automatic machines, not controlled by humans ( got that idea from the story "Bright Beginnings" on Apolyton ). They aren't programmed to detect worms and run away. On the other side, if my explanation is true, why would the Mindworms attack that machines, cause "The Mindworm seeks out concentrations of sentient mental energy and destroyes them, ruthlessly and efficiently." According to the psionic explanation on ACOL machines wouldn't have psi mental energy. So they don't need to be destroyed. Unless off course sentient computers/formers also have psi force. But sentient AI doesn't exist in the beginning of the game... There isn't an explanation I guess. Just one more bug to add to the list. SMAniaC playing to much SMAC according to the "How do I know if I play too much SMAC" thread ( I can quote certain things ).
Spartan Sergeant	posted 07-27-99 06:34 PM ET SManiaC, Thanks for your insights. Just happened to me again.. beautiful island-continent, but drew a few xenofungal blooms (I hate those!) and was busy clearing up when the worms started popping up everywhere. Lost 4 Rover Formers in 2 turns. That hurts [Side note: evn if they were normal formers, it'd still have hurt]
Zoetrope	posted 07-29-99 06:25 AM ET Spartan Sergeant: when you can, put Trance and the Cheapest Armor on one former in each group. The Armor is solely to remove the -50% non-combat penalty. When a worm shoes up, stack the Trance Armored (TA) Former with the ones that look threatened. Most times, the worm will die. Sometimes, a few cheaply Armored Formers can fend off conventional attacks. Hmm, can you armor Supply units? I'd love to give them AAA. Question: What determines which special abilities can be added to which units? Is that customisable?
Tokek Belerang	posted 07-29-99 09:50 AM ET Come to think of it, formers shouldn't have a "disengage" function, they should have a "run like hell" function. But the synthmetal/trance combo does indeed work, if you have the time to huddle all the other ones underneath. Later, Kek
MajiK6pt5	posted 07-30-99 02:17 AM ET i think that the disengage function means that the unit runs away while being fired upon and returning fire in a modern war situation you can't just run away if the opponent has spotted you because he will have long enough range to destroy you on the other hand if you can assign several men (units; each unit is actually several hundred units, right?) to be martyrs and hold off the enemy to let the rest escape, then it is plausible... formers can't fire back, that's why they can't disengage (that would be like pressing the self destruct option) although, then, i wonder how do they defend? i guess people on board have hand guns or something?!?
Spartan Sergeant	posted 07-30-99 05:31 PM ET MajiK, accordign to your logic, NO unit should be able to disengage. Dig this: I had my Rover Formers on Auto. One runs into a Mind worm (and, of course, sullenly stands there, moved, waitign for destruction, and another one MOVES RIGHT UP NEXT TO IT!!!! "Disengage" is desribed as a fasrter unit outrunning a slower one ... my Rover Formers are DEFINITELY faster than the Mind Worm Boils. So again I ask, why no disengage for NC units.
SMAniaC	posted 07-31-99 03:44 PM ET Because SMAC sucks! (on certain points)
Spartan Sergeant	posted 07-31-99 04:30 PM ET Sucks, no. Has room for improvement, yes. This is one litle bit which could definitely use improvement, IMHO. Hmm.. SMACX maybe ? (Yeah, right. Dream on)
MajiK6pt5	posted 08-01-99 01:19 AM ET Spartan Seargent, did u read my answer carefully enough? The mind worms will kill all of the former crew before they can escape. Although, I don't make full sense of it either...
Spartan Sergeant	posted 08-01-99 05:39 AM ET Majik, if that's the case, why can my lowly Recon Rover, with FAR less crew requirement, with equal speed, disengage ? No offense, just curious ...