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Author Topic:   bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs!

Psimanic posted 04-06-99 09:27 PM ET
GOD DAMN THAT V.3 PATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have found more bugs in this patch than I could find in a bait store!
Here are (of many) a couple, please add to the list any you have found, I wanna see what other bugs there are.
1. If you win through supreme leader, then reload the game, you cannot select supreme leader vote in coucil, OR call it for another 10 years.
2. The Bulk Matter transmiter increases mineral production in bases by more than +2.
3. Producing orbital improvements with the SPace Elevator Secret project doesn`t double the rate at which orbital satelites are produced.
1 and 3 were not present in V.2, don`t know about bug 2. Other bugs anyone?
Catalyst001 posted 04-06-99 09:32 PM ET
Doesn't a base have to have an Aerospace Complex for the benefits of the Space Elevator, I don't have the book next to me, but I think it's something like that.
Oh well,
Catalyst001
ICQ#: 15445226
Sic Transit Gloria Mundi, Need I say more?
Psimanic posted 04-06-99 09:43 PM ET
Nope.
Doesn`t say a thing like that in the book,
dunno about the game though. Either way, they screwed up `cos it`s different to the V.2 patch.
Technocrat posted 04-06-99 10:09 PM ET
Psimanic:
About your third complaint, now I could be wrong about this, but if you look in the Base Control Screen and look to the LEFT number on the mineral production (the number before support is subtracted) you can see that number double; I think the time to build orbital improvements already takes this increase into account. I would think that Firaxis made this change in order to stop the huge increases in eco-damage that occurred when you were in the process of building orbital improvements.
Technocrat
Psimanic posted 04-06-99 10:48 PM ET
Technocrat, you`re right that the number actually doubles, but I don`t think that it has been taken into account by the program.
It`s taking 2 turns to build a satelite that requires 96 minerals, even though the base has 126(!) written where you pointed out.
Technocrat posted 04-06-99 11:10 PM ET
My apologies, then, Psimanic; sometimes I only pay half-attention.
JAMiAM posted 04-06-99 11:38 PM ET
Psimanic,
Your reply to Catalyst is in error. Page 166 of the manual states "Base must have an Aerospace complex before it can produce space-based facilities." The Space Elevator is supposed to halve the cost of orbital (read, space-based) facilities.
Now, you are right that it is broken in v3.0, though. Up thru v2.0 it was "working" but not in the intended fashion. It was doubling the mineral output of the base rather than halving the cost of the facility. This was causing major problems due to eco-damage ratings going from 0 to 50+ in one turn. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth was heard throughout SMACland and Firaxis "fixed" the problem but apparently did not beta-play thru a game to the point where they actually built and used the Space Elevator. Believe me, they are aware of this gaffe and are working on it.
Regarding the Bulk Matter Transmitter, it gives +2 minerals to every base, but it gives it to the base's BASE amount, which is then adjusted for the various factories.
JAMiAM

KOwl posted 04-06-99 11:43 PM ET
The Space Elevator ALSO removes the requirements of having an Aerospace Complex..
Question though: Does it remove the limit on the amount of food/minerals a base gets from space if it DOSEN'T have a complex (it's halved)?
*wave*
dbrodale posted 04-06-99 11:52 PM ET
Psimanic -
For (1) - why on earth reload a game that you have already one, other than for curiosity's sake [to revisit the map]?
For (2) - I believe that the effect of the BMT has now been changed to +50% mineral production, not +2 minerals, to bring it more in line with the other SPs.
For (3) - I've read nothing but report after report of the elevator not working in v3.0. Must admit to not having built it under v3.0 myself [game ends before it is available as a SP], so I can't add anything to what has already been written here and elsewhere about the Elevator.
d.brodale
Dim Cat posted 04-07-99 01:15 AM ET
Talking about reloading the game you already won. I once won a vote for Supreme Leader, but Santiago defied the results and proclaimed Vendetta on me. So I finished her in couple turns, but nothing happened: the game did not stop, the score was not calculated, we just kept playing, but the option "Unite behind me.." disappeared from the council agenda. Eventually I had to eradicate all the other factions, at which point AI declared my victory by conquest, calculated the score and suggested me to finish the game. And this all was in v1.0 without any patches.
Shining1 posted 04-07-99 01:40 AM ET
*sigh* Datalinks: "The space elevator removes ALL aerospace requirments regarding orbital facilities" (paraphrased, but only just).
Bulk Matter transmitter may have been increased because it was nearly worthless before. Given that it was the cost of 5 nessus mining platforms, and produced 2 minerals per turn. You do the math.
Unfortunately, you can't easily rewrite the descriptions in the project movies, and for some reason Firaxis isn't rewriting the Datalinks for each change (no mention of the Hive's immunity to Effic in the standard Hive information - I had to do this myself).
There are definite problems with both Diplomatic victory and Economic victory.
JAMiAM posted 04-07-99 02:59 AM ET
My apologies, the Bulk Matter Transmitter does not give +2 minerals as stated in the manual and datalinks. I went back to an old saved game in which I had transcended, and did a careful tile count of a couple of bases and it does give +50% mineral production bonus. Well, I'll be eating crow for a while. Guess I should go back to lurking!

dbrodale,
You see? There IS a reason to go back to an old game you've won! Hmmnnnn...tasty shoes.

JAMiAM
a connoisseur of toejam on toast.

Gebhard Blucher posted 04-07-99 03:25 AM ET
Shining1:
A while ago I played all of the movies outside of the game using the little movie player program that SMAC uses. I noticed that none of the movies had the text at the end. Now I'm not sure from where exactly SMAC is generating the text, but it isn't the movies. I would wager that it's in one of the text files somewhere. (It actually makes sense that the text isn't in the movies, as I doubt the wonder effect were finalized when the movies were made.)
Psimanic:
If you've already won the game as Supreme Leader it stands to reason that you can't call another vote on it. You ARE the Supreme Leader. Why should the option still be there? (I think it would be buggy if it was the other way around...) Also, you can only call the council once every 10 years. Why would you expect that to change?
You are right that there is something screwy with the Bulk Matter Transporter. I'm not sure if it gives +50% minerals to the base it is in and +2 (+all "factory" modifiers) to every other base, or +50% minerals to every base. Whatever it does, it certainly doesn't give its stated effect.
As for the Space Elevator, for all I know, it has never halved the cost of orbital improvements (as it should) but rather doubles the mineral output of the cities building them. I've played all three versions of the game and have noticed no change whatsoever...
GB
dbrodale posted 04-07-99 09:46 AM ET
Gebhard:
You are correct, the concluding text for the SP movies *are* contained in *.txt files ... see movlist.txt in the SMAC root directory [a bit down from the top is where the text descriptors begin to be defined]. Looks like
there are a number of parameters for font size and placing, but there are not docs in the file to explain what the number strings *really* mean. Hope this helps [now Shining1 can update what Firaxis won't!].
d.brodale
Psimanic posted 04-07-99 06:28 PM ET
Gebhard, with regard to the Supreme Leader thingy, I saved the game, and then won on Supreme Leader vote. But I thought, "I want a bigger score!", so reloaded, played for a bit longer until 2399, then tried to get the vote again, which I couldn`t get because those damn monkeys got into the council lists again and deleted the supreme leader vote. (I knew we should have left them on Earth!)
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Author	Topic: bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs!
Psimanic	posted 04-06-99 09:27 PM ET GOD DAMN THAT V.3 PATCH!!!!!!!!!!!! I have found more bugs in this patch than I could find in a bait store! Here are (of many) a couple, please add to the list any you have found, I wanna see what other bugs there are. 1. If you win through supreme leader, then reload the game, you cannot select supreme leader vote in coucil, OR call it for another 10 years. 2. The Bulk Matter transmiter increases mineral production in bases by more than +2. 3. Producing orbital improvements with the SPace Elevator Secret project doesn`t double the rate at which orbital satelites are produced. 1 and 3 were not present in V.2, don`t know about bug 2. Other bugs anyone?
Catalyst001	posted 04-06-99 09:32 PM ET Doesn't a base have to have an Aerospace Complex for the benefits of the Space Elevator, I don't have the book next to me, but I think it's something like that. Oh well, Catalyst001 ICQ#: 15445226 Sic Transit Gloria Mundi, Need I say more?
Psimanic	posted 04-06-99 09:43 PM ET Nope. Doesn`t say a thing like that in the book, dunno about the game though. Either way, they screwed up `cos it`s different to the V.2 patch.
Technocrat	posted 04-06-99 10:09 PM ET Psimanic: About your third complaint, now I could be wrong about this, but if you look in the Base Control Screen and look to the LEFT number on the mineral production (the number before support is subtracted) you can see that number double; I think the time to build orbital improvements already takes this increase into account. I would think that Firaxis made this change in order to stop the huge increases in eco-damage that occurred when you were in the process of building orbital improvements. Technocrat
Psimanic	posted 04-06-99 10:48 PM ET Technocrat, you`re right that the number actually doubles, but I don`t think that it has been taken into account by the program. It`s taking 2 turns to build a satelite that requires 96 minerals, even though the base has 126(!) written where you pointed out.
Technocrat	posted 04-06-99 11:10 PM ET My apologies, then, Psimanic; sometimes I only pay half-attention.
JAMiAM	posted 04-06-99 11:38 PM ET Psimanic, Your reply to Catalyst is in error. Page 166 of the manual states "Base must have an Aerospace complex before it can produce space-based facilities." The Space Elevator is supposed to halve the cost of orbital (read, space-based) facilities. Now, you are right that it is broken in v3.0, though. Up thru v2.0 it was "working" but not in the intended fashion. It was doubling the mineral output of the base rather than halving the cost of the facility. This was causing major problems due to eco-damage ratings going from 0 to 50+ in one turn. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth was heard throughout SMACland and Firaxis "fixed" the problem but apparently did not beta-play thru a game to the point where they actually built and used the Space Elevator. Believe me, they are aware of this gaffe and are working on it. Regarding the Bulk Matter Transmitter, it gives +2 minerals to every base, but it gives it to the base's BASE amount, which is then adjusted for the various factories. JAMiAM
KOwl	posted 04-06-99 11:43 PM ET The Space Elevator ALSO removes the requirements of having an Aerospace Complex.. Question though: Does it remove the limit on the amount of food/minerals a base gets from space if it DOSEN'T have a complex (it's halved)? wave
dbrodale	posted 04-06-99 11:52 PM ET Psimanic - For (1) - why on earth reload a game that you have already one, other than for curiosity's sake [to revisit the map]? For (2) - I believe that the effect of the BMT has now been changed to +50% mineral production, not +2 minerals, to bring it more in line with the other SPs. For (3) - I've read nothing but report after report of the elevator not working in v3.0. Must admit to not having built it under v3.0 myself [game ends before it is available as a SP], so I can't add anything to what has already been written here and elsewhere about the Elevator. d.brodale
Dim Cat	posted 04-07-99 01:15 AM ET Talking about reloading the game you already won. I once won a vote for Supreme Leader, but Santiago defied the results and proclaimed Vendetta on me. So I finished her in couple turns, but nothing happened: the game did not stop, the score was not calculated, we just kept playing, but the option "Unite behind me.." disappeared from the council agenda. Eventually I had to eradicate all the other factions, at which point AI declared my victory by conquest, calculated the score and suggested me to finish the game. And this all was in v1.0 without any patches.
Shining1	posted 04-07-99 01:40 AM ET sigh Datalinks: "The space elevator removes ALL aerospace requirments regarding orbital facilities" (paraphrased, but only just). Bulk Matter transmitter may have been increased because it was nearly worthless before. Given that it was the cost of 5 nessus mining platforms, and produced 2 minerals per turn. You do the math. Unfortunately, you can't easily rewrite the descriptions in the project movies, and for some reason Firaxis isn't rewriting the Datalinks for each change (no mention of the Hive's immunity to Effic in the standard Hive information - I had to do this myself). There are definite problems with both Diplomatic victory and Economic victory.
JAMiAM	posted 04-07-99 02:59 AM ET My apologies, the Bulk Matter Transmitter does not give +2 minerals as stated in the manual and datalinks. I went back to an old saved game in which I had transcended, and did a careful tile count of a couple of bases and it does give +50% mineral production bonus. Well, I'll be eating crow for a while. Guess I should go back to lurking! dbrodale, You see? There IS a reason to go back to an old game you've won! Hmmnnnn...tasty shoes. JAMiAM a connoisseur of toejam on toast.
Gebhard Blucher	posted 04-07-99 03:25 AM ET Shining1: A while ago I played all of the movies outside of the game using the little movie player program that SMAC uses. I noticed that none of the movies had the text at the end. Now I'm not sure from where exactly SMAC is generating the text, but it isn't the movies. I would wager that it's in one of the text files somewhere. (It actually makes sense that the text isn't in the movies, as I doubt the wonder effect were finalized when the movies were made.) Psimanic: If you've already won the game as Supreme Leader it stands to reason that you can't call another vote on it. You ARE the Supreme Leader. Why should the option still be there? (I think it would be buggy if it was the other way around...) Also, you can only call the council once every 10 years. Why would you expect that to change? You are right that there is something screwy with the Bulk Matter Transporter. I'm not sure if it gives +50% minerals to the base it is in and +2 (+all "factory" modifiers) to every other base, or +50% minerals to every base. Whatever it does, it certainly doesn't give its stated effect. As for the Space Elevator, for all I know, it has never halved the cost of orbital improvements (as it should) but rather doubles the mineral output of the cities building them. I've played all three versions of the game and have noticed no change whatsoever... GB
dbrodale	posted 04-07-99 09:46 AM ET Gebhard: You are correct, the concluding text for the SP movies are contained in .txt files ... see movlist.txt in the SMAC root directory [a bit down from the top is where the text descriptors begin to be defined]. Looks like there are a number of parameters for font size and placing, but there are not docs in the file to explain what the number strings really* mean. Hope this helps [now Shining1 can update what Firaxis won't!]. d.brodale
Psimanic	posted 04-07-99 06:28 PM ET Gebhard, with regard to the Supreme Leader thingy, I saved the game, and then won on Supreme Leader vote. But I thought, "I want a bigger score!", so reloaded, played for a bit longer until 2399, then tried to get the vote again, which I couldn`t get because those damn monkeys got into the council lists again and deleted the supreme leader vote. (I knew we should have left them on Earth!)