CTP/SMAC, which is better? Cast your vote here

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Author Topic:   CTP/SMAC, which is better? Cast your vote here

Andrews posted 03-31-99 10:07 PM ET
OK, CTP 1, SMAC 0

Imran Siddiqui posted 03-31-99 10:42 PM ET
CTP 1, SMAC 1
Btw, How can you compare the two? CTP has been out for a day; not enough time to make a clear judgement of it. Also, have you played SMAC? You have 4 posts, which means you haven't been here long, and probably haven't played Sid's Masterpiece.
Imran Siddiqui
JaimeWolf posted 03-31-99 11:05 PM ET
I'm still out on the issue. I've had CTP for a day now ... and it won't start on my NT machine!!!! I'll have to wait until I get home and install it on '95.
Arrrrggghhhh!
So I guess it's CTP:1, SMAC:2 because at least SMAC started on my NT machine (once I disabled the videos).
James
PS I'm with Imran about the nature of this pre-emptive strike. How can you compare something you've played non-stop for almost a month with something you can't have played for more than a day or two?
SnowFire posted 03-31-99 11:59 PM ET
A) I can't vote, since I can't honestly vote for something I haven't played a demo of.
B) There are probably other concientious people like me.
C) More people who would probably like CTP will buy it than those who don't buy it because they know they dislike some parts already.
D) Therefore, since most people who buy CTP will be the kind who would like it more, the results will be skewed in favor of CTP.
yin26 posted 04-01-99 12:16 AM ET
Snowfire,
But this is a SMAC forum, so you have to work that into the equation. Plus, I don't think people are as "pro" or "anti" SMAC or CtP as we would like to think. Are you telling me a hard-core sci-fi player will simply refuse to like CtP even if it ends up being an amazing game? I'm not a big sci-fi fan, but I gave SMAC a try. We all just want a really good game.
In the end, I hope it's a win-win situation: Firaxis and Activision make their money and we get two really great games.
Sadly, we'll probably have to continue hounding both companies for their sloppy execution and the assumption that the released product need be little (if at all) better than a beta.
I think both companies probably said: "Great. The game is released. Now let's get to work!"
This is where the lose-lose situation kicks in. On that score, let's show NO mercy...
jig posted 04-01-99 04:29 AM ET
Yin, if you're pissed 'cos you think games are being released too early then you should be. But don't blame the developers (FIRAXIS), blame the publishers (EA), especially the marketing department. They're the ones that decide when the game's finished enough to be released.
yin26 posted 04-01-99 04:56 AM ET
jig,
Common sense tells me that games are like movies: The studios have a window of time within which the movie must be released in order to maximize profits. They look at issues like whether or not they can release during a holiday season or if they can avoid coming out just as another power house studio is releasing a movie.
But the final product is still, and always will be, the director's/producer's/actor's. Do you think anybody remembers or even cares the pressure so and so director was under to release such and such a movie by this and that date?
Nobody cares. Nobody remembers. That's part of the business. If you can't do it on time and do it well, you might as well go home.
Do you think EA just showed up on Firaxis' doorstep one day and said, "By the way, we release this baby tomorrow!"?
They knew the time-schedule. They knew the logic for the release date. It was their responsibility, _not_ EA's, to make the quality product. Why do you think EA took them on in the first place? Because they had faith in the team.
The question now is, should we?
So, I could care less about the "mean" publishers. Remember, without EA, your beloved Firaxis team never would have had a chance in hell of putting SMAC in your computer store.
Now, just because every other programming team sucks just as much or worse than Firaxis doesn't change where the blame should be directed.
Esobus posted 04-01-99 05:42 AM ET
I had a peek at the CTP box at our SW dealer
It said in large yellow letters not to be
sold in US, pacific and somoe other parts of the far away globe. Only in EC....
The SW-Dealer could not say why this was so.
I wonder why..
E.
Corvus Corax posted 04-01-99 06:22 AM ET
Add one for SMAC - should be CTP1, SMAC 3 now, right?
Freddz posted 04-01-99 07:38 AM ET
What a funny thread. Everyone starts complaining about that you shouldn't be able to vote, then they vote themselves! LOL!
I won't vote yet, but I can tell you playing the game for the first time was like walking into a wall. Ugh. A lot seems different in the interface... A few ups in user friendliness, a few downs. You get to appreciate SMAC features like the auto scouting more ... I love those clerics though... used them to convert 5 enemy cities in the game I'm playing now(you collect 20% gold). They truly add dimension in a good way (yeah one could complain about other special units maybe(haven't tried them)) Also trade seems good... The game is starting to grow more on me, but it seems way to early to compare it with SMAC....
saneperson posted 04-01-99 01:41 PM ET
I haven't played CTP but I still know I like SMAC better for several reasons. First of all CTP has IDIOTIC ideas in it, especially some of the new units. Second of all, I actually think the unit graphics look silly. IMO, activision is a bunch of complete morons who took an elegant high-concept game (civ II) and turned it into something idiotic. SMAC on the other hand is another elegant high-concept game. I can say this without playing CTP, because the ideas in CTP just suck big time..
Ronbo posted 04-01-99 01:49 PM ET
Esobus,
Probably due to trade and tariff issues. Addtionally, many European games (even on CD) are copy-protected again, due to piracy. Here in the US, copy-protected games will not sell (I make backup copies of all my games; this does not mean I make backup copies for friends and neighbors...). You might ask your dealer why; I am sure he would know better than me, although I suspect that one of the two issues I identified is the reason.
Darkstar posted 04-01-99 02:02 PM ET
Add another vote for SMAC...
I've only had CtP for a day, but in the first six hours of play, it got a total of 20 POS ("Piece of Sh*t!"'s) from me. That gave it a 3.33 POS/Hour rating... Higher than any other new game I have tried in a very long time. All the POSs were about the UI (User Interface), which sucks HORRIBLY. I understand that they were trying for their own look and feel, but they threw out to many elements that made Civ playable in the UI department. In comparing the UI against Civ II, it sucks. In comparing it to SMAC, which is a wonderfully improved UI over the general Civ UI, it is just an unacceptable POS.
The graphics for it seem to be ok, and the jury is still out about the general game play. However, due to the UI I would say to save yourself the trouble of raising your blood pressure and go into CtP expecting the computer to only understand one out of FOUR things you direct it to do. That way you will be pleasantly happy that it does 2 out of 3 things you tell it. CtP gets the Darkstar overall rating of POS. UI is just that important to an entertainment product. Something they seemed to have forgotten in the high of building a Civ product.
-Darkstar
JT2 posted 04-01-99 03:34 PM ET
CTP1, SMAC5
The UI _REALLY_ needs some help.
GreasyPig posted 04-01-99 04:50 PM ET
Man....
Decisions, decisions. With Easter weekend coming up I wounder if I should buy CTP. From what I've read so far it has the same love hate following as smac did when it was released. Alot of folks here are obviously biased, the folks in Apoc civ are biased, and usenet is suprisingly a little quiet.
Whats a rained in hick to do?
GreasyPig
SnowFire posted 04-01-99 05:10 PM ET
Freddz: if you read my post correctly, you would have noticed that I did not vote. So don't accuse me of being a hypocrite for voting, because I didn't.
yin26: Firaxis could still publish without EA's help. First of all, there would be a dozen other publishers happy to snap up Firaxis; second of all, they could go independent, like Bungie, and while they might sell a few less copies, they would keep 100% of the profits instead of only 30%.
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Author	Topic: CTP/SMAC, which is better? Cast your vote here
Andrews	posted 03-31-99 10:07 PM ET OK, CTP 1, SMAC 0
Imran Siddiqui	posted 03-31-99 10:42 PM ET CTP 1, SMAC 1 Btw, How can you compare the two? CTP has been out for a day; not enough time to make a clear judgement of it. Also, have you played SMAC? You have 4 posts, which means you haven't been here long, and probably haven't played Sid's Masterpiece. Imran Siddiqui
JaimeWolf	posted 03-31-99 11:05 PM ET I'm still out on the issue. I've had CTP for a day now ... and it won't start on my NT machine!!!! I'll have to wait until I get home and install it on '95. Arrrrggghhhh! So I guess it's CTP:1, SMAC:2 because at least SMAC started on my NT machine (once I disabled the videos). James PS I'm with Imran about the nature of this pre-emptive strike. How can you compare something you've played non-stop for almost a month with something you can't have played for more than a day or two?
SnowFire	posted 03-31-99 11:59 PM ET A) I can't vote, since I can't honestly vote for something I haven't played a demo of. B) There are probably other concientious people like me. C) More people who would probably like CTP will buy it than those who don't buy it because they know they dislike some parts already. D) Therefore, since most people who buy CTP will be the kind who would like it more, the results will be skewed in favor of CTP.
yin26	posted 04-01-99 12:16 AM ET Snowfire, But this is a SMAC forum, so you have to work that into the equation. Plus, I don't think people are as "pro" or "anti" SMAC or CtP as we would like to think. Are you telling me a hard-core sci-fi player will simply refuse to like CtP even if it ends up being an amazing game? I'm not a big sci-fi fan, but I gave SMAC a try. We all just want a really good game. In the end, I hope it's a win-win situation: Firaxis and Activision make their money and we get two really great games. Sadly, we'll probably have to continue hounding both companies for their sloppy execution and the assumption that the released product need be little (if at all) better than a beta. I think both companies probably said: "Great. The game is released. Now let's get to work!" This is where the lose-lose situation kicks in. On that score, let's show NO mercy...
jig	posted 04-01-99 04:29 AM ET Yin, if you're pissed 'cos you think games are being released too early then you should be. But don't blame the developers (FIRAXIS), blame the publishers (EA), especially the marketing department. They're the ones that decide when the game's finished enough to be released.
yin26	posted 04-01-99 04:56 AM ET jig, Common sense tells me that games are like movies: The studios have a window of time within which the movie must be released in order to maximize profits. They look at issues like whether or not they can release during a holiday season or if they can avoid coming out just as another power house studio is releasing a movie. But the final product is still, and always will be, the director's/producer's/actor's. Do you think anybody remembers or even cares the pressure so and so director was under to release such and such a movie by this and that date? Nobody cares. Nobody remembers. That's part of the business. If you can't do it on time and do it well, you might as well go home. Do you think EA just showed up on Firaxis' doorstep one day and said, "By the way, we release this baby tomorrow!"? They knew the time-schedule. They knew the logic for the release date. It was their responsibility, _not_ EA's, to make the quality product. Why do you think EA took them on in the first place? Because they had faith in the team. The question now is, should we? So, I could care less about the "mean" publishers. Remember, without EA, your beloved Firaxis team never would have had a chance in hell of putting SMAC in your computer store. Now, just because every other programming team sucks just as much or worse than Firaxis doesn't change where the blame should be directed.
Esobus	posted 04-01-99 05:42 AM ET I had a peek at the CTP box at our SW dealer It said in large yellow letters not to be sold in US, pacific and somoe other parts of the far away globe. Only in EC.... The SW-Dealer could not say why this was so. I wonder why.. E.
Corvus Corax	posted 04-01-99 06:22 AM ET Add one for SMAC - should be CTP1, SMAC 3 now, right?
Freddz	posted 04-01-99 07:38 AM ET What a funny thread. Everyone starts complaining about that you shouldn't be able to vote, then they vote themselves! LOL! I won't vote yet, but I can tell you playing the game for the first time was like walking into a wall. Ugh. A lot seems different in the interface... A few ups in user friendliness, a few downs. You get to appreciate SMAC features like the auto scouting more ... I love those clerics though... used them to convert 5 enemy cities in the game I'm playing now(you collect 20% gold). They truly add dimension in a good way (yeah one could complain about other special units maybe(haven't tried them)) Also trade seems good... The game is starting to grow more on me, but it seems way to early to compare it with SMAC....
saneperson	posted 04-01-99 01:41 PM ET I haven't played CTP but I still know I like SMAC better for several reasons. First of all CTP has IDIOTIC ideas in it, especially some of the new units. Second of all, I actually think the unit graphics look silly. IMO, activision is a bunch of complete morons who took an elegant high-concept game (civ II) and turned it into something idiotic. SMAC on the other hand is another elegant high-concept game. I can say this without playing CTP, because the ideas in CTP just suck big time..
Ronbo	posted 04-01-99 01:49 PM ET Esobus, Probably due to trade and tariff issues. Addtionally, many European games (even on CD) are copy-protected again, due to piracy. Here in the US, copy-protected games will not sell (I make backup copies of all my games; this does not mean I make backup copies for friends and neighbors...). You might ask your dealer why; I am sure he would know better than me, although I suspect that one of the two issues I identified is the reason.
Darkstar	posted 04-01-99 02:02 PM ET Add another vote for SMAC... I've only had CtP for a day, but in the first six hours of play, it got a total of 20 POS ("Piece of Sh*t!"'s) from me. That gave it a 3.33 POS/Hour rating... Higher than any other new game I have tried in a very long time. All the POSs were about the UI (User Interface), which sucks HORRIBLY. I understand that they were trying for their own look and feel, but they threw out to many elements that made Civ playable in the UI department. In comparing the UI against Civ II, it sucks. In comparing it to SMAC, which is a wonderfully improved UI over the general Civ UI, it is just an unacceptable POS. The graphics for it seem to be ok, and the jury is still out about the general game play. However, due to the UI I would say to save yourself the trouble of raising your blood pressure and go into CtP expecting the computer to only understand one out of FOUR things you direct it to do. That way you will be pleasantly happy that it does 2 out of 3 things you tell it. CtP gets the Darkstar overall rating of POS. UI is just that important to an entertainment product. Something they seemed to have forgotten in the high of building a Civ product. -Darkstar
JT2	posted 04-01-99 03:34 PM ET CTP1, SMAC5 The UI _REALLY_ needs some help.
GreasyPig	posted 04-01-99 04:50 PM ET Man.... Decisions, decisions. With Easter weekend coming up I wounder if I should buy CTP. From what I've read so far it has the same love hate following as smac did when it was released. Alot of folks here are obviously biased, the folks in Apoc civ are biased, and usenet is suprisingly a little quiet. Whats a rained in hick to do? GreasyPig
SnowFire	posted 04-01-99 05:10 PM ET Freddz: if you read my post correctly, you would have noticed that I did not vote. So don't accuse me of being a hypocrite for voting, because I didn't. yin26: Firaxis could still publish without EA's help. First of all, there would be a dozen other publishers happy to snap up Firaxis; second of all, they could go independent, like Bungie, and while they might sell a few less copies, they would keep 100% of the profits instead of only 30%.