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Author Topic:   stupid formers

lewold posted 03-31-99 02:15 AM ET
Principally the "auto former" abilities are good and very important (especially on large maps).
Especially I like to automate formers in order to remove fungus or build roads.
I put the former into the center of a fungus field and automate it - and what does this braindead thing do ? He runs across the whole map (needing 10 turns or such) in order to remove fungus there.
Hey - be honest, such behaviour is not uesful, it's just frustrating aus you always need to concentrate on what the auto formers do.
Chris
yin26 posted 03-31-99 02:51 AM ET
Funny, isn't it? Most of these "great" auto-features that are supposed to free us from micro-management are essentially useless.
Although I have to admit that I hate micromanaging so much that I pretty much let my formers run free no matter what they do--unless they are spinning in circles, which happens fairly often.
I kind of look at it like Forest Gump:
"Terraformers are like a box of chocolates--you never know what you're gonna get."
MikeH II posted 03-31-99 09:34 AM ET
I like having random terraformers, the best thing about them is that they build roads which I always too lasy to build.
Seriously I think it would have been nice to be able to say to a former "Build roads" or "Clear Fungus" and they'd go off and do that around all your bases until they ran out of nearby stuff then they could say "I've built roads between every base you have what now?"
That would have been cool. I tend to have about half my Formers on auto and half under my control.
MikeH II posted 03-31-99 09:35 AM ET
Lazy not lasy, I need to go to typing school.
HMFIC posted 03-31-99 09:53 AM ET
MikeH II - does your version of SMAC not have Automatic Roads and Automatic Fungus Removal as a terraform option for your formers?
DeVore posted 03-31-99 10:24 AM ET
The fully automate former setting is a bad joke which usually makes the former run off and plant fungus in the middle of nowhere :P
Auto improve home base OTOH seems to work quite well.
I usually manage all formers myself for the first 100 years or so and then switch to auto improve homebase mode when the micro management becomes a pain in the ass.
/Dev
MikeH II posted 03-31-99 10:28 AM ET
Yep. Sorry. Just a bit of irony that I should have followed with a
lewold posted 03-31-99 06:22 PM ET
I think the sad thing is that this reduces my confidence into the whole AI.
If a "clear fungus" former is too stupid to detect that a nearby field has fungus - well what do you expect from the overall AI ???
This is still more true for autobuild roads - it's just logical to build the next road where the last one ended, and not at the other side of the planet.
If a guy like S.M. puts a feature into a game then it (usually) works quite good. As such simple things have problems I assume he had to ship a beta version in order to make $$$. So it seems a good idea to wait for the next 10 fixpacks.
Marian posted 04-01-99 02:29 PM ET
I usually just automate the former at the beginning when alot has to be done. From mid game I switch the automate formers option off. That way I avoid the problem.
Ciao
marian
lewold posted 04-01-99 03:44 PM ET
Hi Marian,
That's interresting - I think especially at the beginning there is not so much to do.
In the middle of the game I have > 30 formers at least - I really don't want to micromanage them.
Of course it depends on the difficulty and size of the world you choose
dsherrillj posted 04-02-99 09:24 AM ET
The biggest problem i have seen to date with tf is that in the later stages of the games with all tech discovered and tf unit on auto is will still plant forest/farms instead of going with fungus. you have a fungus square that you planted with a former that is producing max output and here comes autoformer and plants a farm. Stupid formers do not keep track of tech advances as they should - need capability to tell formers what not to do when autoforming.
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Author	Topic: stupid formers
lewold	posted 03-31-99 02:15 AM ET Principally the "auto former" abilities are good and very important (especially on large maps). Especially I like to automate formers in order to remove fungus or build roads. I put the former into the center of a fungus field and automate it - and what does this braindead thing do ? He runs across the whole map (needing 10 turns or such) in order to remove fungus there. Hey - be honest, such behaviour is not uesful, it's just frustrating aus you always need to concentrate on what the auto formers do. Chris
yin26	posted 03-31-99 02:51 AM ET Funny, isn't it? Most of these "great" auto-features that are supposed to free us from micro-management are essentially useless. Although I have to admit that I hate micromanaging so much that I pretty much let my formers run free no matter what they do--unless they are spinning in circles, which happens fairly often. I kind of look at it like Forest Gump: "Terraformers are like a box of chocolates--you never know what you're gonna get."
MikeH II	posted 03-31-99 09:34 AM ET I like having random terraformers, the best thing about them is that they build roads which I always too lasy to build. Seriously I think it would have been nice to be able to say to a former "Build roads" or "Clear Fungus" and they'd go off and do that around all your bases until they ran out of nearby stuff then they could say "I've built roads between every base you have what now?" That would have been cool. I tend to have about half my Formers on auto and half under my control.
MikeH II	posted 03-31-99 09:35 AM ET Lazy not lasy, I need to go to typing school.
HMFIC	posted 03-31-99 09:53 AM ET MikeH II - does your version of SMAC not have Automatic Roads and Automatic Fungus Removal as a terraform option for your formers?
DeVore	posted 03-31-99 10:24 AM ET The fully automate former setting is a bad joke which usually makes the former run off and plant fungus in the middle of nowhere :P Auto improve home base OTOH seems to work quite well. I usually manage all formers myself for the first 100 years or so and then switch to auto improve homebase mode when the micro management becomes a pain in the ass. /Dev
MikeH II	posted 03-31-99 10:28 AM ET Yep. Sorry. Just a bit of irony that I should have followed with a
lewold	posted 03-31-99 06:22 PM ET I think the sad thing is that this reduces my confidence into the whole AI. If a "clear fungus" former is too stupid to detect that a nearby field has fungus - well what do you expect from the overall AI ??? This is still more true for autobuild roads - it's just logical to build the next road where the last one ended, and not at the other side of the planet. If a guy like S.M. puts a feature into a game then it (usually) works quite good. As such simple things have problems I assume he had to ship a beta version in order to make $$$. So it seems a good idea to wait for the next 10 fixpacks.
Marian	posted 04-01-99 02:29 PM ET I usually just automate the former at the beginning when alot has to be done. From mid game I switch the automate formers option off. That way I avoid the problem. Ciao marian
lewold	posted 04-01-99 03:44 PM ET Hi Marian, That's interresting - I think especially at the beginning there is not so much to do. In the middle of the game I have > 30 formers at least - I really don't want to micromanage them. Of course it depends on the difficulty and size of the world you choose
dsherrillj	posted 04-02-99 09:24 AM ET The biggest problem i have seen to date with tf is that in the later stages of the games with all tech discovered and tf unit on auto is will still plant forest/farms instead of going with fungus. you have a fungus square that you planted with a former that is producing max output and here comes autoformer and plants a farm. Stupid formers do not keep track of tech advances as they should - need capability to tell formers what not to do when autoforming.