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Author Topic:   Sid Meier's Orion?

Avenger Dragon posted 03-28-99 11:53 AM ET
I was wondering... They are capable of building a Singularity Engine , and they can't even build a FTL engine? After all , they should begin colonizing the whole Galaxy :-) Star Trek/Star Wars and all the other SCI-FI sagas didn't ascend to trascendence after "just two (colonized) planets".
So they should have included some Secret Project which allowed a faction to send another colony ship to some other "important" star system (and I think that , apart from Alpha Centauri , the next "cool" Star System is either the Orion Belt or Aldebaran... or Cygnus... Uhmm but anyway a Sid Meier's Zeta Reticuli would be great! ;-) you know.. Zeta Reticuli is "supposed" to be the homeland of the "Grays" (the "real" Aliens)).
Anyway I hope that someday Firaxis will develope something like Master of Orion 2 (I heard something (but years ago) about a Master of Xenon...).. You know Planet Busting cities is cool , but pressing the "Destroy Planet" button is just completely different :-)
Speaking of SMAC , I would like to see (someday) , something like a "Mechanized Infantry" chassis.. You know.. the Mechs from Mech Warrior .. How comes there are NO mechs? And .. c'mon no cyborgs? There is the cyborg factory , but no "cyborg" chassis.. We want the T-1000 :-)
Also.. since I noticed that when using the diplomacy screen.. the CPU controlled faction always asks its "things" firsts..
Well this is simply not fair... They should make a sort of "Diplomacy Request Script" , you know like the Demand Withdrawal button..
I mean , there should be a "Custom Request" button in the Commlink menu..
Something like : "If you do not surrender/make peace/cede control of that base AND give me xxx tech I will bomb you back to the sone age/let you play Civ:CTP/?"
BTW here in Italy , (you know I live in the south-eastern tip of Italy , in the zone which is near the Jugoslavian coast) , there is a sort of war "hype" , everyone is (it's very sad to say this) "excited" from the war.. Anyway I heard the Serbs just shot down a F-117 (!!!!!!!) and now that almost secret technology has fallen in the hand of the Serbs..
[SMAC window pops-up : Our infiltrators report that Serbs Scientists developed "Stealth Technology"]
So returning to SMAC , if you destroy with a 1-1-1 Unit a 24-12-6*4 unit .. well you should be able to recover some technology by practicing retro-engineering or something like that..
NuWav posted 03-28-99 12:15 PM ET
I'm also patiently waiting for a galactic conquest game. I don't know how I keep my patience tho.
wkehrman posted 03-28-99 12:35 PM ET
I like the idea of being able to "reverse engineer" something. The only problem is that "reverse engineering" sometimes creates an inferior product. The Chinese, it is argued (by those who know more about the details than I), reverse engineer all the time, but produce products from that process that are notably inferior to the originals. I think they finally gave up on RE and just started working on their own. Anyway, there is also the problem of being technologically capable of duplication. To borrow from the grays/captured UFO theme, and relatively recent cinematic extravaganzas, just because we have the wreckage from Roswell does not mean we have the capacity to duplicate their far superior technology. Except of course for the stealth materials we use on certain fighter bombers.
Still, I always thought that it would be a nice idea to capture technology. Send out a probe team, capture someone's Shredder Silksteel Fusion Rover take it apart and gain a technology. Of course, there would need to be some limit....say, you could only capture x number of technologies that way. Better yet, recover a Unity Rover or Unity Transport and gain Doctrine:Mobility or Doctrine:Flexibility.
Tarot242 posted 03-28-99 02:25 PM ET
How do intend to discover a Doctrine, a mode of thought and philosohpy from a Rover or Transport you picked up somewhere? That's the thing about stealing techs from REing units...sure, you now have a working Singularity Laser in your posession, but that doesn't mean you can duplicate it at will or even understand how it works. Your scientists would still have to do exhaustive reverse-engineering and research of their own.
Gebhard Blucher posted 03-28-99 02:37 PM ET
In a way, you can capture technology from units. Let's say you have your probe team subvert a Shard Probability Drop Troop unit. If you look in your workshop window, you'll notice that you can now build that same unit even if you have none of the prerequisite technology. You can even fool around in the workshop to let you use all of the component parts (shard, probability, drop pods, etc) in new units, and the prototype will be complete. Just don't retire the original unitl you've design some new units with the "parts" you want. It's a good way of keeping current with your weaponry if you've fallen behind.
GB
Avenger Dragon posted 03-28-99 03:58 PM ET
I think they could handle it in this way..
For example you capture a Singularity Graviton ... Statis Clean Hyped Ultra SkyFort :-)
And you have not yet researched the Singularity Engine... So they could give you xxx research points for when you actually research the real technology.
I'm sure it'll be somewhat easier to research it with a working one to experiment it..
Meanwhile , for non mechanical technologies , (and this means the armor only) well I suppose reproducing a material is easier than reproducing a working engine , for example.. So it could be instanteneous in this case.
paraskous posted 03-28-99 04:07 PM ET
It's not the Rover or the Foil that makes up for the "Technology" - it`s the "Doctrine.
Building a Rover is easy - but combining to a consistent strategy, military command structure, logistics, industry etc. is a different part of the story. Today you can easily learn how to build an atomic bomb or a rocket, but can you do it though? I think that`s the key behind it - it's not only how to build and maintain something but to apply it with your resources.
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Author	Topic: Sid Meier's Orion?
Avenger Dragon	posted 03-28-99 11:53 AM ET I was wondering... They are capable of building a Singularity Engine , and they can't even build a FTL engine? After all , they should begin colonizing the whole Galaxy :-) Star Trek/Star Wars and all the other SCI-FI sagas didn't ascend to trascendence after "just two (colonized) planets". So they should have included some Secret Project which allowed a faction to send another colony ship to some other "important" star system (and I think that , apart from Alpha Centauri , the next "cool" Star System is either the Orion Belt or Aldebaran... or Cygnus... Uhmm but anyway a Sid Meier's Zeta Reticuli would be great! ;-) you know.. Zeta Reticuli is "supposed" to be the homeland of the "Grays" (the "real" Aliens)). Anyway I hope that someday Firaxis will develope something like Master of Orion 2 (I heard something (but years ago) about a Master of Xenon...).. You know Planet Busting cities is cool , but pressing the "Destroy Planet" button is just completely different :-) Speaking of SMAC , I would like to see (someday) , something like a "Mechanized Infantry" chassis.. You know.. the Mechs from Mech Warrior .. How comes there are NO mechs? And .. c'mon no cyborgs? There is the cyborg factory , but no "cyborg" chassis.. We want the T-1000 :-) Also.. since I noticed that when using the diplomacy screen.. the CPU controlled faction always asks its "things" firsts.. Well this is simply not fair... They should make a sort of "Diplomacy Request Script" , you know like the Demand Withdrawal button.. I mean , there should be a "Custom Request" button in the Commlink menu.. Something like : "If you do not surrender/make peace/cede control of that base AND give me xxx tech I will bomb you back to the sone age/let you play Civ:CTP/?" BTW here in Italy , (you know I live in the south-eastern tip of Italy , in the zone which is near the Jugoslavian coast) , there is a sort of war "hype" , everyone is (it's very sad to say this) "excited" from the war.. Anyway I heard the Serbs just shot down a F-117 (!!!!!!!) and now that almost secret technology has fallen in the hand of the Serbs.. [SMAC window pops-up : Our infiltrators report that Serbs Scientists developed "Stealth Technology"] So returning to SMAC , if you destroy with a 1-1-1 Unit a 24-12-6*4 unit .. well you should be able to recover some technology by practicing retro-engineering or something like that..
NuWav	posted 03-28-99 12:15 PM ET I'm also patiently waiting for a galactic conquest game. I don't know how I keep my patience tho.
wkehrman	posted 03-28-99 12:35 PM ET I like the idea of being able to "reverse engineer" something. The only problem is that "reverse engineering" sometimes creates an inferior product. The Chinese, it is argued (by those who know more about the details than I), reverse engineer all the time, but produce products from that process that are notably inferior to the originals. I think they finally gave up on RE and just started working on their own. Anyway, there is also the problem of being technologically capable of duplication. To borrow from the grays/captured UFO theme, and relatively recent cinematic extravaganzas, just because we have the wreckage from Roswell does not mean we have the capacity to duplicate their far superior technology. Except of course for the stealth materials we use on certain fighter bombers. Still, I always thought that it would be a nice idea to capture technology. Send out a probe team, capture someone's Shredder Silksteel Fusion Rover take it apart and gain a technology. Of course, there would need to be some limit....say, you could only capture x number of technologies that way. Better yet, recover a Unity Rover or Unity Transport and gain Doctrine:Mobility or Doctrine:Flexibility.
Tarot242	posted 03-28-99 02:25 PM ET How do intend to discover a Doctrine, a mode of thought and philosohpy from a Rover or Transport you picked up somewhere? That's the thing about stealing techs from REing units...sure, you now have a working Singularity Laser in your posession, but that doesn't mean you can duplicate it at will or even understand how it works. Your scientists would still have to do exhaustive reverse-engineering and research of their own.
Gebhard Blucher	posted 03-28-99 02:37 PM ET In a way, you can capture technology from units. Let's say you have your probe team subvert a Shard Probability Drop Troop unit. If you look in your workshop window, you'll notice that you can now build that same unit even if you have none of the prerequisite technology. You can even fool around in the workshop to let you use all of the component parts (shard, probability, drop pods, etc) in new units, and the prototype will be complete. Just don't retire the original unitl you've design some new units with the "parts" you want. It's a good way of keeping current with your weaponry if you've fallen behind. GB
Avenger Dragon	posted 03-28-99 03:58 PM ET I think they could handle it in this way.. For example you capture a Singularity Graviton ... Statis Clean Hyped Ultra SkyFort :-) And you have not yet researched the Singularity Engine... So they could give you xxx research points for when you actually research the real technology. I'm sure it'll be somewhat easier to research it with a working one to experiment it.. Meanwhile , for non mechanical technologies , (and this means the armor only) well I suppose reproducing a material is easier than reproducing a working engine , for example.. So it could be instanteneous in this case.
paraskous	posted 03-28-99 04:07 PM ET It's not the Rover or the Foil that makes up for the "Technology" - it`s the "Doctrine. Building a Rover is easy - but combining to a consistent strategy, military command structure, logistics, industry etc. is a different part of the story. Today you can easily learn how to build an atomic bomb or a rocket, but can you do it though? I think that`s the key behind it - it's not only how to build and maintain something but to apply it with your resources.