posted 03-16-99 11:17 PM ET        

This might be a bit over-the-top. But I think the point is valid: there are some factions whose philosophies make them totally unsuited for Transcendence.
Skye and Yang would probably try to Ascend, seeking oneness with Planet and with their fellow humans, respectively.
Morgan would not be interested, as his focus is on individual profit. Lal is also too focussed on individualism--although he might come to see Transcendence as the ultimate democracy. Zakharov might be interested in the continuous scientific advance that union with Planet promises. Santiago would
probably fight, for the reasons described above. Miriam would fight even harder--she loses her unique divine destiny if she's part of a fungus, and worse yet, Planet would probably be an atheist.

So, I like to play Morgan. I don't want to conquer or buy out or be voted in by the other factions--and then still have to deal with Planet. If I'm trying to role-play the faction, I won't want to Ascend. As things stand, I have no choice. But I want to be able to kill Planet!

Clearly, this would have to be addressed in a future patch. I think,however, that seeing Planet as an enemy to be destroyed at all costs is a valid viewpoint. And it should be possible, at the top of SMAC's tech tree.

First weapon: fungicide. Fungicidal Super Formers are a good start. However, fungus can grow back where they killed it. Further, they probably don't kill all
fungus in a square, but just enough to allow movement through unhindered. They probably have little effect on underground or deep submerged fungus. What they leave will allow Planet to communicate across the gap
they left. This isn't good enough. Here are more suggestions.
Pump massive amounts of fungicide into the water table around all cities. This should kill all nearby fungus--and prevent any more from sprouting. Now, Earthly fungicides can be poisonous to people, too. But Planet's fungus is alien. There should be at least one
compound that will kill it and not affect people at all. Remember, humans are more closely related to Earth's fungus than the latter is to Planet's variety.
Further, organisms could be bioengineered to produce fungicide. Seed forests and kelp farms with these creatures, and suddenly you have squares where fungus growth is impossible. These squares should also break
all connections between fungus patches on opposite sides, tearing a hole in Planet's neural net. Break Planet into small enough pieces, and it should die. Thanks to SirOscar for the original suggestion.

Second weapon: Planet Busters. These should destroy all fungus, clean down to bedrock, and provide good ground for seeding with fungicidal forest or kelp.

Third weapon: Infect Planet, as mentioned above. This wouldn't kill Planet, but would weaken it, and make it spend resources fighting disease. This should weaken
the severity of its response. This is a Secret Project. If it is not built fast, Planet should start to produce hundreds of Locusts per turn--enough to swamp anybody.
It might also hinder the Ascent, or prevent it from being built until the city with this Project is captured or destroyed.

Planet's response: Well, the obvious. Lots and lots of locusts/boils/Isles. The Locusts, at least, could be generated outside city radius, hopefully far from
sensors, so they are not immediately crushed by Empath Copters.
Also, some factions would side with Planet. Planet could give them dozens of Independent native life forms, to aid their attack on the destroyers. Planet should be far more active than after any amount of pollution--
its life is at stake here.
All factions must choose sides in the Planet War--Planet will treat any faction not allied with it as an enemy.

If Planet is triumphant, and the Ascent is built, all factions allied with it gain a Cooperative Victory. If Planet dies, then all opposed factions gain Cooperative Victory.

posted 03-17-99 12:13 AM ET         

I also turn off win by cornering the energy market. Why.. simple, no matter how much value anyone places in the the stock market or any other high brow Index of comodities, One thing will always remain true, man need's land to live and man is willing to fight for the things he needs. Its like saying New Jersy beats the Soviet Union cause its got a better economy.

I like the simple things in life. Beer and a good piss...

posted 03-17-99 04:39 PM ET            

Way too many times have I been running a small but growing nation that has done nothing more than planted some farms, solar collector and trees, and Planet parks a load of worms just outside a city (and easy attack range). Next turn, another Faction like Morgan or Santiago shows up with a small army, declare war, start their attack. After wasting half their stack, the rest hold back as Planet moves in to waste all defenders, and then moves on to my next city. When you can go in and see the high eco-damage that your enemy cities are/or should, be causing with their 4+ boreholes per city and 4+ condensers... well, you know that Planet has it in only for you. And that's funny when you are greenier than the Gaians.

Destroy Planet! Death to Planet! Enslave Planet!

Note: I can and do play games that are Planet friendly, but these are getting rarer as the SMAC code engine decides to send Planets wrath against me when its the other factions that are the ones hurting it. I have only seen Planet not pummel me (where enemy are trying to invade my lands) in very rare circumstances. This is very aggravating! If Planet is going to crucify my faction for others crimes, I want a way to pay the stupid thing back.

And Transcendance sounds like Hell On Earth. I prize my mental individuality. I suspect most of us do. Would you volunteer for a lobotomy, err... nerve stapling? Not me. I have a hard time thinking anyone other than Yang's People (but not Yang) would find it acceptable. But this is a Sci-Fi game, so who knows what colonist in such a world would think?

Anyways... Kill Planet! Kill the back-stabbing, Terran hating bigot! Death to Chiron!

:-)

posted 03-17-99 10:28 PM ET            

Now for the "defy planet" victory. If you have defeated planet, you're votes get doubled, and everyone forgives you your atrocities, or else you'd unleash your domesticated planet on them.

posted 03-18-99 02:40 PM ET            

If you have played the higher levels then I disreguard my point. If you have avoided the 80-boils-a-turn situation, please tell me how?? You may want to peruse my "long end game, general observations" post for more info.

My "opinion" is Planet is a good element in the game storyline, but it's well overcooked in the end game... by a bunch.

posted 03-18-99 03:01 PM ET         

Has anybody disected the ecodamage ratings? Just possessing technology increases your ecodamage! How does that work? I can see planet getting annoyed by terraforming (planetforming?) and planet busters. That could be one reason that end game worms seem to swarm so badly.

My policy in playing has been that ANY ecodamage is bad news. That tends to result in many generalized bases rather than a few specialized production-only bases. Games like MOO2 and Civ2 encouraged building killer production cities to serve as the economic core. That type of strategy might also be a reason for the complaints on this forum about planet swarms.

posted 03-21-99 02:41 AM ET            

I've played several games now, all transcend with abundant life forms, and I've never had serious problems with Planet attacking me. I like to play Gaian, so that certainly helps, but I also NEVER let eco-damage get out of control. Occasionally, I'll let it stay as high as 6 or 8% for a few turns early in the game, but otherwise I always make sure every base is at 0. Obviously, that means no PBs as well.

posted 03-21-99 03:12 AM ET            

That Santiago argument is excellent, but it got me wondering of a custom faction. Maybe someone who was to be in charge of pest control, a glorified ship's Orkan man who switched seats with another faction leader and didn't get killed in the accident. Custom techs, quotes, projects, many with the new faction leader's bent of "pest extermination." The way the tech tree seems laid out, the mix of philosophies gave the advances. With someone else replacing someone, it ought get more interesting side-advances. Imagine an exterminator would have many useful ways to kill planet, with an inherent negative green rating, and many scheming "great projects" do do the beast in.

But the AI of planet really is lacking (as many have said), it needs to behave more like the other AI factions. Just now, Yang makes eco damage, and if Santiago's "Number One" (ie human) she gets the brunt of the backlash. Maybe if planet had "cities" which could be deep fungal patches or something. Just wipe out all the major fungus and the scattered fungal strips eventually die. Perhaps fungus needs fungus around it to survive. One can understand why it breeds like crazy.

I like the idea, kill it, kill it good.

posted 03-26-99 04:49 AM ET            

My reasoning was that although new fungus might popup in isolation, it usually grows from an existing patch.

It worked: Planet became and remained very quiet.

So I wonder, if you erase absolutely every patch of fungus everywhere, how quiet does Planet become then?

Aside from that, mindworms are prevalent in my games only near cities that are polluting like crazy. For example, when I set city Governors to assign citizens' duties, they use the citizens to boost production by alternating between drone riot and calm. This is usually effective, has two disadvantages: (1) occasionally the drones demolish a building while off the leash; (2) high production => significant eco-damage, and then ... the worms, the worms!

posted 03-30-99 02:31 PM ET            

I haven't played the game enough to do a transcendence.. but I don't think that Miriam would necessarily be against transcendence.. why? Have you ever heard of the French Jesuit philosopher Pere Pierre Teilhard de Chardin? He held that humanity as a whole was evolving towards a state of transcendent consciousness, where we would become "one with God." Chardin is very interesting from a scientific/philosophic point of view.. To read more on him, see this link I found: