posted 03-09-99 05:56 AM ET        

1. His incessent emails regarding Firaxis and being banned. Firslty I would like to point out that is both entirely possible and highly likely that whatever is causing his machine to crash is a problem with the OS rather than SMAC. Being a programmer and ex computer science lecturer I am well aware of problems associated with the OS that cannot be worked around. A bug in Windows is hardley Jeff's problem. However I should state that without specific information on the problem I cannot definitively state whether windows is to blame or not. Mr Yin should check his facts before venting his opinion. Also why was it SO important a topic as to warrant posting to every SMAC news group????
2. Mr Yins problems with America. He says he loves America but then proceeds to list everything that is wrong with it. I would say that Mr Yin loves the American lifestyle but suffers from either idealogical jealousy or tall poppry syndrome when it comes to the country and people. And as for the American people invading and killing the natives and then using African Americans as slaves. Well would you like to point out a country or people that haven't. This does not mean to say I think their actions were just. But I do believe that poeple in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. In particular if he lives in Korea he should be aware the ancient histroy of the country and the three states that existed eons ago. They fought and killed (invaded) each other and surrounding countries for hundreds of years. Slavery was as much apart of their culture as any other. It was just instantiated in a class based system. At later stages Korea was invaded by the Shang (Chinese) and more recently Japan. Again, show me a blameless country.

posted 03-09-99 08:20 PM ET            

O.K. America is great because it has killed as many people as any other country. Solid point.

Don't get me started on Korean history. Trust me. I know much more than you do. Fighting amongst one's own people, or fighting to defend one's country from invaders (hundreds of times, as in Korea's case) is quite a different thing than showing up one day, accepting some corn, then raping the locals. It's also quite different from dropping an atomic bomb and saying: "Rejoice! For we have done what was humane." Actually, I don't particularly care for the American lifestyle, either. The average American has over 5 credit cards and carries a balance in excess of $15,000. It's a nation of growing decadence and hatred for personal responsibility. It's a nation choking on lawsuits from everything from spilled coffee at McDonald's to "My Parents Made Me Fat Now Give Me A Million Dollars"--which is then spent on potato chips, bad cable and the new Monica Lewinsky book. Next time, get your facts straight about what I like and don't like.

Your matchbook summary of Korea's history was cute, but only lamely tried to deflect the point that Americans, like you, go out of their way to herald the supposed blameless way America has come into being and now wields its power.

As for my facts: I have a new machine. But, oh no, I didn't stop there. I proceeded to download every new driver I could find for all my supposedly top-notch hardware. I even wrote my own drivers in my spare time. I've liscensed a few and now the money is really rolling in--in fact, I can now buy Monica's book!

As for posting on all the forums, I apologized for that days ago. Were you too busy misunderstanding everything you read to get to it yet? But here's my personal apology, just for you because you are such an intellect and deserve the treatment. I'm SOOO sorry I stole your valuable time. I have no right to an opinion without checking with you first. Do you mind if I run all my posts by you first? Thanks.

And do I really have to point out a people who didn't try to kill anything that moved? Well, it would be a lot easier now wouldn't it if, say, Americans, hadn't killed such people from the moment they first met....

posted 03-09-99 09:08 PM ET            

Here is a larger, more expanded version, coming from a native Korean:

Approximately 5000 BC, the korean civilization started with three tribes with a similiar spoken language. These three tribes eventually developed into four kingdoms:
Koguryo to the north, Shilla to the southeast, Paekche to the west, and Kaya to the south. Paekche, being peaceful, moved south because of the war like northerners (Koguryo). Kaya was assimilated into Shilla. After this assimilation, the Three Kingdoms period started. It should be noted that this period differs from the Chinese Three Kingdoms Period. In any case, Shilla eventually signed a treaty with China, and in that alliance, conquered the rest of Korea, and when China refused to abide by the treaty's terms, Shilla drove them out. Another chinese invasion caused the norther half of Korea to be conquered, and when the chinese were repulsed, this northern kingdom became Parhae. These two became part of Koryo, and Choson, frequently at odds with China, but also often at times allied with China. It also gave lots of technology and cultural items to Japan, especially in the way of Confucism, Buddhism, and other cultural relics. It was during the Choson period that Korea developed its alphabet, the only true alphabet native to the far east (Japan actually uses a syllabary). This was developed under King Sejong the Great.
later, Hideyoshi, jealous of Korea's ties with China, invaded korea, and succeded in several battles on land before being beaten back by korean generals and a korean admiral, Yi Sunshin, who used the world's first ironclads and decimated a larger japanese fleet. after this war, korea did not have much in the way of a violent history until the 19th century.
by the 19th Century, korea had become a hermit kingdom, and when americans tried to force the ports open as they had done with the japanese, korea opened up slightly. eventually, however, japan began exerting its industrial power, which was stronger than korea's at the time, and made its intentions known. The Sino-russian and sino-chinese war were fought over korea, and japan was the victor each time, and annexed korea in 1910, resulting in a brutal occupation.
This occupation was somewhat like the nazi's occupation of foreign nations and the american treatment of natives; one could also compare it to the Cardassian occupation of bajor in ST S9.
The independence movement was widespread, and by 1945, korea had achieved its independence. korea was partitioned, however, by some idiot in the state department along the 38th parallell - the soviets get the north, the amis the south. worked well until unification was attempted - and in 1948, both nations declared themselves. the korean war started in 1950, and lasted until 1953, resulting in the deaths of 33000+ soldiers, and millions of others. a cease-fire ended the "hot" war, but a cold war with intrusions have been taking place ever since.
up until now, america has stationed around 30K soldiers there, and is defending korea.

that's a "matchbox history"
======
as for american attitudes in korea - yes, a lot of servicemen are jerks. that's all i'm saying about that right now.

slavery was not a part of korean history - serfdom does not equal slavery. serfdom was present, but slavery was not in extensive use, unless you count the fact that women were not treated equally and expected to give men nearly everything.
======
and in any case, contact me if you need a more specific history of korea.

posted 03-09-99 09:16 PM ET            

Hey, I'm in Seoul! It was great reading your run down on Korean history. I think you cleared some things up.

By the way, what I meant by Davis' "matchbook" history is that all his knowledge of Korea could fit on a small piece of paper, the size of a book of matches, for example.

Trust me, I was not putting down Korean history. In fact, I just might get a Ph.D. in it one day. It think Firaxis should make a Korean Civ. THAT would be fun.

posted 03-10-99 12:37 AM ET            

I guess I probably did assume to much when it came to your attitude towards American lifesytle. Point taken.

As for me being an American, well I'm not.
I have never been to the country, nor am I of any Ethnic group that originally founded (invaded?) the new world. So perhaps this time you assumed to much. The reason I was making a point, is that in my COuntry as in many others, people are so quick to point out America's faults. Very seldom do I hear anything good about the country even though many good deeds are propogated by its people.
As in SMAC the weaker nations use contempt to cover jealously. And yes my country is one of the weaker nations and I am both proud of and fiercely loyal to it. And yet my people seem to have a love-hate relationship with America as much as anyone.

As for my knowledge of Korean history. Well you are probably right your knowledge is better than mine. All I was trying to point out is that you cannot blame the few for the sins of the many.

As for your "grab some corn and rape the natives" summation of the colonisation of the Americas. Well I will leave you to your opinions however overly biased they may be.
I think this time the matchbook metaphore could be apllied to you, or are you an expert on all cultures? Feel free to send me an private email about this topic if you wish to further discuss it.

Since you had previously apologised ot the list then I guess I owe you an apology. Having only just joined I had not read your apology. Yes, yes get my facts straight. I know. Well hopefully now I have.

As for the other matter of Firaxis and Jeff. Well I did say that without knowledge of the problem I cannot judge if it is an OS problem or purely a bug. If it is an inherent problem with the OS then I don't see the need for complaing to FIRAXIS??

If you have created drivers and sold them then you should be well aware of OS nuiances (bugs). Sometimes workarounds are not possible. Perhaps we shall have to agree to disagree on who is responsible.

And if someday we meet and you kill me. Well my descendents would bear hatred towards you but not your ilk. I wouldn't condem your people for your sins. So why should America (with its culturally diverse population) be condemed for the sins of certain, long dead, factions?

I guess if you go back far enough, we all come from the same evolutionary (or if you like religious) beginning. SO are we all to blame?

And no you don't need my permission to post. I never suggested you did.

Please feel free to reply. Perhaps a flame or two may make you feel better
Then again you could make a point of not replying and therefore not dignifying my respone with an answer.

----------
PS I don't believe anything I said about Korea was either derogatry (spelling) or incorrect. Perhaps it was to brief, however someone lese made up for this shortfall in his/her reply.

posted 03-10-99 03:18 AM ET            

My last two posts to this were eaten in cyberspace. Now, for the third time, I getting ready to write a long, touching tale about reconciliation and the mating practices of Congo fruit bats. But I just don't have the energy this time. I owe you one.

I do think, however, that power without humility breeds tyranny (made it up while I was drunk). The U.S. should be humble (and a bit more enlightened) when it deals with other countries. That's all. That's it. Pretty simple. As for the Indian remarks, (I'm 1/16th Cherokee Indian, though my butt is whiter than the background on this forum--trying to picture that is dangerous to your health. I beg of you, please forget I even mentioned it) I agree the example is a bit dated. How about when the U.S. arrested a bunch of "suspicious dark-skinned" guys after a bomb blew up some government buildings in Oklahoma. We found out later, of course, it was a couple of home-grown, banjo-pickin' good 'ol boys who rolled in cow **** so long they figured out how to make it explode. Now, if such people try to kill their own government, are you far behind? Anyway, please don't make me explain my example. Just do what I do: stare at it until you make it make sense.

Shining1 and Achilles,

Admiral Yee Soon-Shin invented the "Turtle Boat" in the mid 16th century--it earned its name because a huge, shell-like metal covering protected any entrance into the ship by cannon ball or Japanese. There were even spikes on it in case anybody got a wise idea to jump down on the ship! On the bow, a large dragon head shot cannon balls from its mouth. The Merrimac would follow a few hundred years later.

posted 03-10-99 03:21 AM ET            

My last two posts to this were eaten in cyberspace. Now, for the third time, I getting ready to write a long, touching tale about reconciliation and the mating practices of Congo fruit bats. But I just don't have the energy this time. I owe you one.

I do think, however, that power without humility breeds tyranny (made it up while I was drunk). The U.S. should be humble (and a bit more enlightened) when it deals with other countries. That's all. That's it. Pretty simple. As for the Indian remarks, (I'm 1/16th Cherokee Indian, though my butt is whiter than the background on this forum--trying to picture that is dangerous to your health. I beg of you, please forget I even mentioned it) I agree the example is a bit dated. How about when the U.S. arrested a bunch of "suspicious dark-skinned" guys after a bomb blew up some government buildings in Oklahoma. We found out later, of course, it was a couple of home-grown, banjo-pickin' good 'ol boys who rolled in cow **** so long they figured out how to make it explode. Now, if such people try to kill their own government, are you far behind? Anyway, please don't make me explain my example. Just do what I do: stare at it until you make it make sense.

Shining1 and Achilles,

Admiral Yee Soon-Shin invented the "Turtle Boat" in the mid 16th century--it earned its name because a huge, shell-like metal covering protected any entrance into the ship by cannon ball or Japanese. There were even spikes on it in case anybody got a wise idea to jump down on the ship! On the bow, a large dragon head shot cannon balls from its mouth. The Merrimac would follow a few hundred years later.

posted 03-10-99 10:13 AM ET            

It is interesting that such inventions/concepts were discovered so early. I wonder why the people of the time were unable to capitalize upon it and use it and other ideas to conquer the world or at least the region.

posted 03-10-99 12:35 PM ET            

We all have atrocities in our history (whether it be the massacre of Native Americans or mass starvation perpetrated by the North Korean government), we all suffer from arrogance when we happen to be on top, we all have a tendency to think that our way is better, that our group is better, etc.

America gets picked on a lot because we happen to be the world's only superpower. Like every world power in history, that sometimes means that the US will do things in its own interest that irritates other nations. We do it because we believe we are right (we wouldn't do it otherwise), because we can, and sometimes because we are as fallible as any other people.

I think it is far better to have a superpower that believes in human rights, democracy, free markets and human dignity (at least in principle, if not always in fact), than otherwise. If the sole world power were the Soviets, or the English of the 19th century, or the Spanish empire, or the Chinese or Japanese empires, or even the Aztecs (Civ2 experience, here :-)), then I think that there would be fewer independent powers, people in general would be more poorly off, and the behavior of governments in general would not be subject to the scrutiny that it is today.

posted 03-10-99 08:00 PM ET            

First, the ships weren't very big. Since Japan and Korea are so close to each other, they were essentially floating walls with spitting dragons attached to them. Add to that the fact that any decent storm drowned both navies, and you get a clear idea what we're talking about.

posted 03-14-99 09:16 PM ET            

Shining1: the turtle ship, of which around 200 (i think) were built, had sails and were also powered by oars. the head was in the shape of a dragon's, and constantly emitted smoke - for a smokescreen, and also had a cannon. the top was fully armored; the iron plates were at the top, and had spikes on them, to discourage boarding. there were slits all along the sides to help the gunners, archers, and such.

posted 03-14-99 10:32 PM ET            

Q-Cubed might be good at collecting books on Korean history, but he's not a very astute student of Korea's contemporary situation.

O.K. So El-Nino caused some problems. Guess what? The Red Cross and countless other humanitarian groups, including many from South Korea, have sent TONS of food and aid to North Korea.

Where does it all go? Right to the dinner talbles of the highest ranking officials and, if they are lucky, the military.

posted 03-14-99 10:48 PM ET            

Q^3: Historically, there has almost never been a case of famine occuring 'naturally' amoung a population. The free market principle of supply and demand has seen to take - when you're hungry, you'll trade (or promise) anything and everything to get food.

Famines are caused by politics. Africa, Ireland, Eastern Europe, North Korea - all the result of governments or militias forcibly suppressing the needs of the population.

posted 03-14-99 10:56 PM ET            

First, I don't think you know how all this started, so I guess I can forgive you.

As a matter of fact, I AM more interested in how the U.S. acts today as world leader. As far as that goes, I'm glad it's not Communism at the top. But let me ask you some questions: 1. Are you American? 2. Have you ever travelled abroad and felt the hatred that many people feel toward America?

Do you really think these MODERN problems come simply because America is "the best"? America is the product of its history (by the way, do you know anything about American history?): fierce individualism and violence. That's essentially how America tries to run the world: with a "me first" "look at my big gun/money" attitude.

posted 03-15-99 05:33 AM ET            

Now about the American bashing...
Well first he seems to jump on people for making the generalization that America is the greatest thing since sliced bread but then he makes a generalization about how bad America is.

I agree that Americans have too much credit card debt but what does that have to do with the international scene or with atrocities against humanity? As for the lack of responsibilty bit thats very subjective and I doubt you can come with hard evidence proving that Americans are less responsible than other peoples.

Why is America great? Why isn't Korea running the world's only superpower? yin26, who do you think should be running the world?

I'm going to have to go to work soon so I'll cut this short.

I think America is great for a several reasons. First, we are a relatively new country with abundant resources. Secondly, Western culture emphasizes technological advances and progress.

posted 03-15-99 07:24 AM ET            

O.K. America is the world's last superpower. Does it deserve to be? We could argue that until the SMAC patch 3.0 comes out. Would we all rather have America running the show than, say, that evil country, Denmark? [I've been there: even the bread is like a gift from God ] Again, we could argue that until Demark actually gets patch 3.0

Should America demonstrate more sensitivity and not be sold bold in coercing foreign nations to do as the U.S. sees fit? (Please don't ask for specifics. Read the newspaper.)

Absolutely.

Wouldn't the United States be doing an even better job of "running the world" if it just stopped the whole "Look at us, we're running the world" stuff?

Of course.

I don't think the world takes issue with the U.S. for its power but for the often ignorant and jingoistic way it wields it.

That's all. Simple, really.

posted 03-15-99 10:12 PM ET            

but i don't think that means that they are causing the famine.

famine and shortage are two different things, or they were when i learned english.

famine is when no food grows and people are hungry.
shortage is when food is there, but not sent out and people are hungry.

if they aren't explain them to me, please. your language is confusing.

posted 03-16-99 05:16 PM ET            

i'm just not too happy with the way things are going for them, because Kim Jong-Il isn't too balanced.

also, i'm concerned that the japanese and the americans have not completed their part of the bargain.

posted 03-18-99 09:47 PM ET            

also, nk has allowed the western world access to its sensitive sites and stated that it wouldn't attack anyone during assistance.
what do you mean it hasn't been reliable?
last time NK has attacked, it was a surprise invasion - and there was no agreement as such then.

if you're referring to the constant espionage, you're ignoring the fact that many nations routinely do it to each other; you can't stop that, really.

posted 03-18-99 09:58 PM ET            

As you know, I live in Seoul and take a great interest in being alive. Thus, I've watched the North Korean thing very carefully.

O.K., we could chalk it all up to propoganda if you like, but even relatively high ranking officials who recently defected from North Korea have stated again and again that NK's leaders hoard the food for themselves--I don't know how dried noodles and rice can rot in storage, but that's another issue--and constantly prepare for war. According to these people, they are constantly told that the South is ready to attack any day and all other concerns, including starving to death, should be suppressed for the good of the State.

Sure, maybe they are lying. Maybe it's part of their big plan to do I don't know what.

But common sense--and history--tells me that what they say is true.

In which case, why are you going out of your way to sympathize with the last significant bastion of Communism on Earth?

You're starting to flash your red star--and it frightens me.

posted 03-19-99 01:51 AM ET            

As a bonus, though, this stuff reminds me of SMAC.

Q-Cubed, I'm working from memory, so if you want to correct me here and there feel free, but I think they left some of these pages out of the "100s" of books you have on Korea.
____________________________________________

At the end of World War II, the Russians and Americans decided to an arrangement of convenience: The now broken Japanese colonizers would surrender to the Russians in the North and to the Americans in the South. At the time, this was not intended to separate North and South Korea. The intention was to provide Korea a brief (a few years) "guardianship" which would then be turned over to a Korean leader elected by the people.

Kim Il Sung, who had long fought the Japanese colonizers and who was a student of Communism, made his way back to the North at the end of the War. Not surprisingly, the Russians felt comfortable with him as the new Korean leader.

Sygman Rhee, who was in exile in Hawaii for his own struggles against the Japanese, made his way back to the South at the end of the War. Not surprisingly, the United States felt comfortable with him as the new Korean leader.

Thus the stage was set.

The Americans tried to stage a peninsula-wide election, but the North refused the U.S.'s authority. Thus, the Americans held elections in the South only, seeing President Rhee as the first president of the Republic of Korea (the ROK). Rejecting these results as "invalid," Kim Il Sung in the North held his own "popular" elections and won, claiming to be the rightful head of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK).

The intense rivalry and often just insanity that grew between these two men fueled the already obvious ideological disparity between the Russians in the North and the Americans in the South.

In June of 1950, in the dead of night and during a thunderstorm to cover the sound of tank fire, the North Koreans attacked the South in an "unprovoked" act of aggression. Hindsight now leads us to believe that Mr. Rhee to the South had verbally given the North enough reason to believe that an invasion from the South was imminent (although they were clearly unauthorized by the U.S. and unprepared to do so without U.S. support). Thus, the idea of proper justification for a Northern first strike is open to debate.

The United Nations Command is formed to help resolve the conflict. General MacArthur is named Commander.

In their exodus, South Koreans fled from Seoul southward, away from the rolling tanks. In one symbol of this tragic war, the U.N. forces make the "heartbreaking" decision to blow the bridge that spanned from Seoul across the Han River to the South.

Entire families, numbering several hundred innocent civilians, died in this attempt to keep Northern troops from advancing.

But the tanks just kept rolling southward, their troops assuring the people, "We are here to set you free!"

After being driven to a small patch of land in the Southeast, General MacArthur's troops were sprung by their commander's brilliant amphibious landing at Inch'on, which cut the North's supply lines in two. The brilliance of this unexpected counter-attack is the worthy of its own post, but here's a preview: MacArthur purposely choose the HARDEST spot to land, knowing the North would never in a million years expect him to do so. His own troops thought he was a madman.

So effective was this counterstrike that the U.N. forces retook Seoul and pushed the invading North back to the Yalu River, which borders China. It was there that the U.N. forces made the mistake that would add well over another year and thousands of lives to the cost of this war.

They attacked North Korean troops on Chinese soil.

Some 1 million Chinese troops flooded across the Yalu in retaliation, again causing Seoul to be retaken, again pushing the U.N. forces to near collapse to the extreme south. Jets are introduced to warfare for the first time. And, we now know, an upgraded weapon, one not used since Hiroshima, was being moved into place.

The Korean War brought the world closer to nuclear Armageddon.

Finally, after three years of intense battle on this very small peninsula, the two sides squared off roughly where the original surrender lines had been drawn for the Japanese after World War II. The U.N. offered a "cease-fire" agreement. Not recognizing the U.N.'s authority, the North simply walked out of the meetings.

Thus, North and South Korea are still technically at war.

The Demilitarized Zone (or DMZ) was established as a buffer zone between the two Koreas, one soon to be left stranded after the fall of Communism, and one that to this day is the beneficiary of nearly 30,000 U.S. ground troops and several thousand tons of state-of-art military hardware.

U.S. Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, often refers to this spot as "The most dangerous place on Earth." Perhaps this is just rhetoric to justify defense spending. Perhaps not.

If you visit the DMZ today, as I just did for my second time, you'll notice some very strange things there. On the North Korean side in particular, you'll see what the Americans call "Propaganda Village." It is named so because this small, city like village has plenty of buildings but no people. That's right. No people. Building facilities' staff are the only ones ever seen in this "village." In fact, even most of the buildings are nothing but empty shells. Most windows are painted over cheap concrete to give it the appearance of wealth and serenity.

You'll also see an enormous North Korean flag. It was placed at the top of the huge flag tower after the Americans built a tower for their and the U.N.'s flag. Not to be outdone, the North Koreans tore down their old tower and built one that is larger than that in the South. The flag is so enormous that it cannot be left out in the rain because the weight of its own wet fabric will literally cause it to shred.

Soldier of Fortune Magazine in the United States has offered a $1 million reward for anybody who can bring back a piece of that flag. The only trick: You have to have a picture of yourself on the flag tower cutting your piece. Good luck gentlemen, now you have something to do when you're not playing SMAC.

You'll also notice huge writing on the nearby hills that proclaim the North is a place of "Self-Reliance" and "Purity." The North Koreans blast propaganda on huge speakers 4-7 hours a night to try to convince the South that they should leave the "corrupt" influence of the West and join the "true" Korea.

Finally, you'll notice a cement plaque that commemorates the spot where two American soldiers were murdered by the North Koreans with axes during a routine tree-trimming operation.

That tree was later completely removed as part of "Operation Paul Bunyan," which included a full division, Stealth Bomber fly-overs, and Battleships resting off the coast nearby. It was the most expensive gardening the world has ever seen.

Since then, numerous infiltration tunnels have been discovered that the North Koreans burrowed into the South for a surprise attack. Just yesterday a sunken spy submarine (that tried to fight its captors in South Korean waters) was hoisted out of the ocean. Periodically, armed North Korean infiltrators make their way virtually to the capital building in Seoul, where they are killed because they refuse to surrender or kill themselves to avoid capture.

The South routinely tries to re-unite the families divided by the war. Most of the family members are now old or dead. There just isn't much time left.

The North's response?

$25,000/person to the North Korean government buys a reunion.

North Korean diplomats commonly use their immunity to smuggle drugs and other contraband across international borders.

North Koreans in Thailand just a few days ago abducted a high-ranking Thai family over a money dispute. Their son is still being held captive.

North Korean soldiers used to shoot their own people. For what? Trying to find some healthy tree bark to eat on the Chinese side of the border. Now, these people can bargain with the soldiers. "I'll bring you some food if you agree not to kill me and my children."

All this while one of the largest humanitarian campaigns in history has been underway for two years or more. The food is there, but the North Korean government won't allow its people access to it. Independent observers have confirmed this.

In essence, North Korea is nothing but a petty thug, bent on making money any way it can. Determined to keep its people underfoot, even if they starve.

North Korea's government is happy to let generations of its own people die a slow nutritional and ideological death at the hands of a maniac's son, who is now the reigning terror in the dreams of several million unfortunate Koreans.

Upon the peaceful transfer of power from Kim Il Sung to his son, Kim Jong Il, many proud Communists could be heard to say: "This is the first familial succession in Communist history."

Funny actually, because now there aren't many Communists left who are very proud of anything.
____________________________________________

posted 03-19-99 08:51 AM ET         

My knowledge of North Korea comes primarily from news reports. Even if the Washington Post is completely biased (I think them to be only slightly so), if things are half as bad in N. Korea as they say, then they are far more horrible then anything anybody in America has to deal with.

People in N. Korea would rather risk freezing to death to walk across the border into China than stay where they are. N. Korean families sell their daughters in order to buy food.

When other countries want something from N. Korea, the unwavering answer is seems to be, "we'll do it, if you pay us." They try to extort money out of other countries at every opportunity.

I don't believe the country to even be communist, any more. It looks more and more like a typical petty dictatorship run by a despot (who fancies himself a playboy) who enforces his rule through brute strength and an almost laughable cult of personality.

posted 03-20-99 10:46 PM ET            

Ok.

I don't have a red star, and i'm not trying to defend NK. I'm just saying, that because they are fellow koreans, I feel some sort of desire to make sure they are not completely excluded from the rest of the world.