Alpha Centauri Forums
The Game
A Sid/Brian Reynolds or Sxean Lee~David Design.
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Alpha Centauri Forums
The Game
A Sid/Brian Reynolds or Sxean Lee~David Design.
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| Author | Topic: A Sid/Brian Reynolds or Sxean Lee~David Design. |
| Theoriginal |
posted 03-07-99 09:24 AM ET  
Hear ye all, aspiring game designers,.. do not submit your game designs to any company lest they become stolen. SMAC is the perfect example, I designed AC 4 years ago as an undergraduate project, and submitted the design to various individuals/companies in hopes of a job in game designing. My company name since then is DreamScapeAxis LLC, the principle design structure of my game is based on 8 different ideologies which govern the people in thier respective worlds. I have documentation thats goes back to 1993 when the game was first concieved. And, now these thieves have stolen my ideas and used them for thier own game ( which is a watered down version of my original design ). For a copy of the Original Game Documents contact me at [email protected]. and see the proof for yourselves tha Brian Reynolds did not design AC but lifted the ideas from various sources, namely my sources. |
| BoomBoom |
posted 03-07-99 09:38 AM ET
So why haven't come forward earlier? I mean this forum has been here for ages, and SMAC has been known to be in the making for about a year and a half. Have you contacted anyone from Firaxis about this. Oh, and does not sound like you got some of your inspiration from games like civ and others like it? |
| Wonka |
posted 03-07-99 02:47 PM ET
Ok, what if you did? I will say thanks, but lets be honest, you had a premice for a idea for a game. Did you write the code? Did you devlope the system? Did you market your idea (other than blindly throwing it out to game companies)? Your mistake is that you 1)are trying to take credit from one of the greatest game companies in the history of computer games, which of course means no dice! 2)You don't think that possibly that maybe, that perhapes, that a small chance, that could be that someone else had the same idea, or a very similar idea? Please, don't get me wrong but is this really the forum to decide this?? I think there are laws to protect people like your self from this, you should look into them, not send E-mails out to unsespecting(sp?) people like my self, not that I or other people don't. But, to place your message here seems like nothing more than you trying to slander Fireaxi's name. That I and I'm sure other don't want to here.
Wonka |
| Gorth |
posted 03-07-99 09:20 PM ET
SMAC is the logical descendant to Civ/CivII, leave the worn out planet of earth and start a new high-tech society. Civ (the original) was published in 1991, which would mean that in order for Sid and Co. to have gotten the idea from Theoriginal, they would have had to travel forward in time several years. I find that difficult to swallow. |
| Shadwhawk |
posted 03-07-99 09:25 PM ET
Interesting. One would expect virtually ANY company, especially to have itself mentioned on the web...I can search for my own name, and come up with 46 pages. Guess what a search on Altavista, excite, and Yahoo turned up on 'DreamScapeAxis LLC,' 'DreamScapeAxis,' and 'Dream Scape Axis'? Yea, that's right. Absolutely nothing. I'm calling your bluff. Send me the documents and prove it. I'm also replying via e-mail, but you'll have to read it and personally respond to send the information to me (no auto-responders or auto-signup spam bots will work). Shadwhawk |
| Shining1 |
posted 03-07-99 09:26 PM ET
And Sxean says that this idea was submitted 4 years ago. He doesn't name the company (it would have to be microprose for Brian to have seen it), and even then, it's a long time to leave something like this lying about. Finally, what are the odds that Sxean would otherwise have 'axis' in his company title? Gee, the CTPer's really seem to infested these forums. Imran! Where the hell are you? |
| Imran Siddiqui |
posted 03-07-99 09:30 PM ET
Shining, I'm still here. I posted a response in the Off-topic forums. Why do you have to have threads in two different forum, that say exactly the same thing! Imran Siddiqui |
| CaptComal |
posted 03-07-99 09:47 PM ET
Imran... This is yet another of those messages that are SO EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that they have to be posted in every forum and mailing list so that we each can read the same thing at least a dozen times. The clincher would have been to title it: ****IMPORTANT**** MUST READ Best Regards, CaptComal |
| Sinapus |
posted 03-07-99 09:59 PM ET
Not only does he have to post it in every forum, I got this claim in my email. I would guess that anyone whose email is available in your profile also got it. |
| Jason Beaudoin |
posted 03-08-99 08:28 AM ET
Why does everybody automatically dismiss the possibility that he may be telling the truth? Do you think that it's impossible? Think of it this way: what would be the motivation of posting such a claim? If this is a lie, you must ask yourself why would someone do this? ...and if you're thinking that it is a competitor of Firaxis, think again because I think that it is highly improbable that professionals would risk a lawsuit just for the off chance that slander like this would turn people off of the game. I think that it is na�ve of anyone to think that this is impossible. Personally, I don't readily judge anything until I've had a chance to see review the facts for myself. I'd have to see the evidence to make a judgement. But, the burden of proof is the responsibility of the accuser, so I'd like to see what he has. Wonka: What if Firaxis did take the idea you ask? Did you ever hear of the word plagiarism? Try doing that in University, and you'd see how serious they view the issue. I've heard of stories where people had their degree revoked years after they graduated because they copied a paragraph from the text of another author. It's a very serious crime... just a serious as this allegation. |
| Derek |
posted 03-08-99 09:09 AM ET
You cannot copyright an idea. The laws in the United States protect intellectual property, but only for work that has actually been done. Copyright is the creator's right to computer code or written text that they have created. Using that text without approval is a violation of copyright, and you can be sued for it. Plagarism is the putting forth of someone else's written work as your own. Unless Theoriginal provided actual code which Firaxis then appropriated for use in SMAC, or he provided written background information that was adapted verbatim into the game, then he has no case (assuming he isn't just another idiot craving attention by making shocking statements in a public forum). SMAC does not contain any concept that hasn't been explored before in either general scientific literature or science fiction. The game mechanics are clearly derivative of other Sid/Brian games like Civ2, with influences from other games in the strategy genre. Having factions based upon ideology is certainly not an original concept. What, then, would there be for Theoriginal to claim as his own? |
| agoraphobe |
posted 03-08-99 11:25 AM ET
Theoriginal's gotta be a spoofer |
| Shining1 |
posted 03-08-99 08:10 PM ET
Jason: Basically, I dismiss it because Sxean ONLY wants the truth to be known. I can't recall a single breach of copyright case where the slighted artist just 'wanted the truth to be known'. Secondly, SMAC is in many respects just CivII in space (vaguely reminisent of Starcraft when you put it like that, really No. I don't buy it, and I'm certainly not going to download 'evidence' from a stanger with a grudge. Sxean can either post it or forget about it. |
| Spoe |
posted 03-08-99 11:06 PM ET
"8 different ideologies which govern the people in thier respective worlds." "I designed AC 4 years ago as an undergraduate project..." "I have documentation thats goes back to 1993 when the game was first concieved." Sounds like you're copying Master of Orion(the most recent patch is dated Thu Aug 31 00:00:00 1995). After all, that game out before you claim to have designed the game and has several different races, with different strengths/weaknesses, each with their own worlds. You might also compare this to the design of Galactic Civilizations and others. As it pertains to SMAC, the ideas you claim as stolen I have personally seen tossed around as suggestions going back at least 7 years on comp.sys.ibmpc.games and comp.sys.ibmpc.games.strategic. They are also logical, and in some ways, minor advancements over Civ 2. In short, I dismiss you as a troll. I'm surprised you aren't accusing them of stealing the idea of the name for their company(after all, they both end in 'axis'). |
| Scrubby |
posted 03-08-99 11:38 PM ET
<FLAME> Well my first response after receiving the email was "Who is this fruitcake? And why don't I get porn site spam like everybody else? 1. 8 competing ideologies! Whoa, that's EXACTLY like SMAC! EXACTLY! Why, there's nothing else that even comes close. 2. 1993! Sheesh! That was long before ANYONE considered doing a game involving, oh I don't know, eight competing factions in space?! 3. SMAC is a watered down version of your design! What the f**k does that mean? Hell I designed a game last week where eight competing factions tried to control my bowel movements. SMAC is watered down in comparison. 4. Reynolds and Co. lifted ideas from YOUR sources. Like what? Frank Herbert? MOO? Empire? Civilization? Science Fiction in general? 5. You have proof? Post it on the forum. Hell you might as well, it's not like anyone could make it up or as if Firaxis hasn't already stolen it. 6. Even if your claims were true why on earth did you send it out to companies? Have you never heard of copyright laws? Intellectual property rights? You want to know why movie studios don't even open mail that remotely looks like scripts? Because of people like you. If you are telling the truth get a lawyer and quite acting the fool. p.s. Stop F**king spamming the people on this forum. Idiot. </FLAME> |
| anoona |
posted 03-09-99 04:02 AM ET
Aren�t we taking this a bit personal?! And, so who cares if it�s true. If anything I think this guy may have SOME credibility to his claim. Having contacted Theoriginal and obtaining a copy of game documentation, that actually dates back before the release of CIV2, it looks like a strong case if he can prove he sent Reynolds a copy. Though, he's only claiming credit for the Factions, I see nothing else that would hold-up as plagiarism or copyright infringement. However, after comparing SMAC'S factions to Theoriginals Worlds, I'd also say there were more noticeable differences than similarities. For instance, SMAC's factions are bound by ideologies of a philosophical nature whereas Theoriginals worlds are much more thought-provoking from a psychological perspective. Instead, of acquiring resources, forming alliances, building colonies and waging war, in Theoriginals game you experience "Events" from you interactions in the worlds. Each 8 worlds are completely different; the gameplay mechanics are also different in each world. But overall it's a hybrid strategy, action-adventure that is nothing like SMAC's, not to mention that it's a 1st person 3d game not a 3rd person 2D. The gamedocs he emailed me were scanned images of text, sketches and flowcharts of how these worlds/factions would interrelate. Some of the quotes he had prepared were easy to digest and, to me, more thought-provoking than SMAC's stuff. (see below) Except their is no mention of weaponry, mindworms or secret projects, just weird " events " that wasn't explained too well. What I did like that there was no mention of shooting, it's a game for thinking & provoking-thought and nothing else. I'd say it's about time !! If he develops this game I'm certain it'd be on the forefront of gameplay content. So, bite the bullet Theoriginal! Maybe if you spend more time developing your game than sending emails you could get a demo out and find a publisher for yourself. Even if MR. Reynolds did take your idea isn't it just a waste of time trying to claim credit when you still have enough of an excellent GameDesign to develop your own Game and claim credit for your finished product ?! I think it's an excellent GameDesign, maybe the best I've read about but what counts is if you can produce it. Justdoit. Good Luck ! " To destroy violence & greed, you must disassociate yourself from it in all its gross and subtle forms, and so long as you are caught up in it you are part of that world of ignorance and fear. Then the world is an extension of yourself. The world does not exist apart of the individual. It may exist within an ideology, as a state, a social organization, but to carry it out & make it function starts with the individual. " A quote from Theoriginals gamedocs. (take your own advice and stop emailing this forum) |
| Jason Beaudoin |
posted 03-09-99 08:00 AM ET
Scrubby: Take it easy and relax! Don't get so P.O.ed. You're going to blow a valve or something! The only thing that I was saying is that people make judgements even though they haven't seen any evidence. I believe anything is possible. I agree with the lot of you. I think that it is highly unlikely that Firaxis got the idea from someone else. Derek: You're absolutely right. I made a bad comparison. Shinning: You're right too. The burden of proof rests in his hands. |
| Scrubby |
posted 03-09-99 09:07 AM ET
JB: Let's just say that I think Theoriginal's claims are highly dubious. I take issue with his/her/its methods. Don't spam people on the forums. It'll just tick them off. If Theoriginal is serious about this GET A LAWYER. One final issue. I've got a scanner and a printer (even some pencil and paper); how hard is it then to "fake" some of this stuff? Give me a couple of days and I'll have anyone thinking I invented PONG eighty years ago. |
| UndertakerAPB |
posted 03-09-99 10:37 AM ET
Firaxis always seem to answer some stupid topics in other threads. But no response to this one at least not yet. Kind of sounds like a NO COMMENT from them?????? |
| Scrubby |
posted 03-09-99 10:52 AM ET
Hell, I find it distasteful to address this crap and I don't even work for Firaxis. Imagine this Undertaker (and for someone who dislikes SMAC as much as you you sure come here a lot!) you work for about two years on a project and when it comes out some schmoe tells everyone that he/she/it had the idea years before and the game is a copy of his/her/its game. This really PO's me. How do you expect the employees of Firaxis who WORKED to make SMAC to feel. They're pretty amused I'm sure but legally probably can't comment on this. Well let me do it for them: What a crock. Go play CTP -- oh wait, sorry, IT'S NOT OUT YET... p.s. I must apologize for this outburst. I just don't like spam ok?! |
| anoona |
posted 03-09-99 01:27 PM ET
Scrubby, why does this guy affect you so much? And, why don't you open up your mind. Are you SO NIAVE to think that Corporate Exploitation of anothers ideas isn't possible. People, especially the ones with the $ have been stealing ideas since the beginning of copyright Law. Then you say, "why don't theoriginal just get a lawyer". On a student budget, yeah right !! I'd say this is the perfect place to voice the unethical business practices of firaxis. It's people like you that make it impossible for the start-ups to get a fair chance because your too blind to realize that company research dollars have always been used to exploit the minds of University Students. Wake Up. Here at UCLA many companies will fund projects only so they can have first dibs at commercializing them. Have you heard about the Research on Cellular phones. How the antennas transmit harmful frequencies that can damage our DNA? You probably didn't hear too much about it till recently but the research existed many years ago. This is an example of how Corporations controls research and exploit the system to their own advantage. Just like Brian Reynolds supposedly stole ideas from Theoriginal. So , before you get all pissed why don't you educate yourself on the possibilities, instead of relying on stupid game designs like SMAC to stimulate your little dendrites. |
| Prerogative |
posted 03-09-99 07:35 PM ET
anoona, I think you need to calm down, we're just gamers here. I don't really care if it was Theoriginal's idea because, quite frankly, it just isn't original. How complex is an idea about some odd amount of factions fighting wars? This isn't about DNA screwing cellular phones or atomic reactors, this is just a game design on a piece of paper. And, as Derek said before, unless something of Theoriginal's was DIRECTLY stolen and intergrated into SMAC, he has no case whatsoever. Everybody steals ideas, but who cares? Why doesn't Apogee sue ID Software for stealing the idea of a crazed man shooting things in first person? Why won't Origin and Sierra have a battle over who was the first to create computer RPGs? So on and so forth, the basis of the games themselves are stolen ALL THE TIME, and for the most part, it leads to better games. |
| Borodino |
posted 03-09-99 10:10 PM ET
Undertaker, Even if Firaxis did answer "NO COMMENT" in response to a direct question [which they have not -- you are simply misconstruing silence], "NO COMMENT" mean simply "NO COMMENT." It could not be construed by any reasonable person as an admission of any sort. |
| yin26 |
posted 03-09-99 10:28 PM ET
Let me just say THIS to THAT: I just got another e-mail from you guys telling me that you have a game design that allows for an intelligent way to peacefully win a game like this. Sounds good. As for your larger argument, I designed Pac-Man when I was three years old. I used to take my pet stuffed monkey and shove his face into little green peas that I had lined up in a maze like pattern across the floor. Sounds easy? Try again. Mr. Fluff Bunny and his evil team of Matchbox Maniacs--who never got behind the wheel without first taking in a deep snort of Coke--were right there to put an end to all that good pea eating. Although, I must admit, I never thought of a Power Pea and a way Monkey could eat Mr. Fluff. It was always the same sad story. Pea-faced Monkey gets pounded by coke-snorting, Fluffy-loving road killers. Was I sad? Hell no! What made Monkey think he could eat peas off the floor anyway? But I digress. My point is that I was clearly ahead of my time. Heck, I still am. But my lazy three-year-old ass didn't copyright the idea. I just sat there, making a mess, planning on ways to blame the video game industry that wasn't even started yet. You see, I was a baby. What's your excuse? Design your new game. Copyright it this time. Good chance I'll buy it and then you'll think of ways to ban me from giving you some good criticism. |
| Scrubby |
posted 03-10-99 12:10 AM ET
Anoona: I love the X-Files too. |
| Wonka |
posted 03-10-99 04:03 PM ET
Hey Scrubby, I heard Theoriginal was trapped in a rock for 6 years and had to wait for time to snap back. Then the evil Brian Reynolds and company had stolen his idea and already made a game!! HOLY COW!! Now my girl friend has brain cancer (from talking on a cellphone), and my dog has grown 2 more legs (from the powerlines overhead of my 2 BDR trailer). By the way I have not recieved the "plans for Theorignal about this game of his, I have asked twice now. Wonka |
| zaz |
posted 03-10-99 04:59 PM ET
When I was a kid, in the mid 70's, I played a game with my friends where you built your Country from a small population into a large Civilization. You had different technologies you could reasearch and after gaining the techs you could build better weapons etc. (SOUND FAMILIAR) I even have some of the old papers the games were played on. I should have the papers dated and then I could sue Sid for stealing the idea for CIV from me. (JUST KIDDING) Point 1: Who do you think was the happiest person on the planet when the game CIVILIZATION first appeared. I was. Point 2: On a planet with 6 billion people how many other people were probably doing something similar. Probably Thousands. Does anybody actually believe that only Sid Meier had this idea, of course not, but he developed it and marketed it and made it fun and playable. |
| anoona |
posted 03-10-99 11:38 PM ET
Aren�t we taking this a bit personal?! And, so who cares if it�s true. If anything I think this guy may have SOME credibility to his claim. Having contacted Theoriginal and obtaining a copy of game documentation, that actually dates back before the release of CIV2, it looks like a strong case if he can prove he sent Reynolds a copy. Though, he's only claiming credit for the Factions, I see nothing else that would hold-up as plagiarism or copyright infringement. However, after comparing SMAC'S factions to Theoriginals Worlds, I'd also say there were more noticeable differences than similarities. For instance, SMAC's factions are bound by ideologies of a philosophical nature whereas Theoriginals worlds are much more thought-provoking from a psychological perspective. Instead, of acquiring resources, forming alliances, building colonies and waging war, in Theoriginals game you experience "Events" from you interactions in the worlds. Each 8 worlds are completely different; the gameplay mechanics are also different in each world. But overall it's a hybrid strategy, action-adventure that is nothing like SMAC's, not to mention that it's a 1st person 3d game not a 3rd person 2D. The gamedocs he emailed me were scanned images of text, sketches and flowcharts of how these worlds/factions would interrelate. Some of the quotes he had prepared were easy to digest and, to me, more thought-provoking than SMAC's stuff. (see below) Except their is no mention of weaponry, mindworms or secret projects, just weird " events " that wasn't explained too well. What I did like that there was no mention of shooting, it's a game for thinking & provoking-thought and nothing else. I'd say it's about time !! If he develops this game I'm certain it'd be on the forefront of gameplay content. So, bite the bullet Theoriginal! Maybe if you spend more time developing your game than sending emails you could get a demo out and find a publisher for yourself. Even if MR. Reynolds did take your idea isn't it just a waste of time trying to claim credit when you still have enough of an excellent GameDesign to develop your own Game and claim credit for your finished product ?! I think it's an excellent GameDesign, maybe the best I've read about but what counts is if you can produce it. Justdoit. Good Luck ! " To destroy violence & greed, you must disassociate yourself from it in all its gross and subtle forms, and so long as you are caught up in it you are part of that world of ignorance and fear. Then the world is an extension of yourself. The world does not exist apart of the individual. It may exist within an ideology, as a state, a social organization, but to carry it out & make it function starts with the individual. " A quote from Theoriginals gamedocs. (take your own advice and stop emailing this forum) |
| TheClockKing |
posted 03-11-99 12:42 AM ET
TheOriginal would have a valid point if Firaxis actually ripped him off but they didn't. This game is clearly an extention of Civ in space. Look at all of the recent posts that people have put up about how this is just that. The time factor hurts his case as well, if anything from what he says I could see it being put that he developed this game after playing Civ 1 where everyone including myself beat the game saying "Gee it would be great if we could actually colonize Alpha Centauri". Even IF his statements were true then all Firaxis did it sounds like is take a general concept and use it for themselves. If you are the first to create a Civ type game in space that does not mean that no one else can do that. A similar case was something like Data East vs. Capcom which sets a legal president that would allow Firaxis to beat you, not that they did anything to you. Nothing is stopping YOU from going ahead with your game, in fact SMAC and Call to Power are starting to attract new people to this type of game, which if you truely have a great game is something you want. The Clock King |
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). The idea of an energy economy is neat, the social engineering is cool, and there's not really much else brand spanking new aside from those things. Brian lists a whole heap of good Sci-Fi books from whence ideas have come.
" Seriously, though I like to keep an open mind about these things this is just too silly.