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Author Topic:   Anyone actually lose

Ashbri posted 02-28-99 12:31 PM ET
I was curious if anyone has actually played till the end and lost? I figure this might be a indication if AI is good if it can beat someone who may not be really trying.

Ashbri posted 02-28-99 11:27 PM ET
Shameless post to move this back to the top of the heap.
Cat posted 03-01-99 12:35 AM ET
How can you play to the end and lose? Do you mean get near the end only to be defeated by one of the other factions? Otherwise you can't lose - if it's just a matter of time running out, you don't really actually lose - you still get a rating.
Brother Greg posted 03-01-99 12:45 AM ET
I think they meant playing until defeated, as opposed to starting to go badly, then giving up and starting a new game.
timbrom posted 03-01-99 07:34 AM ET
I've only played one game to the end so far, and that on the easiest level, to get an idea of things. Looks like a good Civ player will wax the AI. Can't speak for the tougher levels but I'm going for #3 next in the hope of getting a real challenge.
Zoetrope posted 03-03-99 01:44 AM ET
I'm not one of those who fights to the bitter end of a losing chess match. It's courtesy to resign - and leaves you with time for another match!
So far I've played as Zakharov, Deirdre, Yang and Lal, and on the first three levels I've won every game that didn't get too slow because it was a Huge Land map on my P-100. Such slow games I expect to be playing for a few weeks yet! Unless I can find a great optimisation like the `instant transit' option that the manual says is available.
At Librarian (#4) however, I've played several games in a row as Zakharov and been beaten badly. I was playing Ironman (which I hadn't on the lower levels), but the main reason was an unfavorable starting location (for example, hemmed in on a small peninsula) compounded by poor diplomatic judgment of the rivals' seriousness causing me to turn down a demand at a bad time, and being Vendetta'd by a vastly superior opponent, or two, or three.
OTOH as Lal and Yang I had no trouble winning Librarian. Lal outgrew everyone by four to one well before turn 200 so I won by vote against everyone else's wishes and Yang inexorably ground them down.
PUSH posted 03-03-99 03:08 AM ET
That's true, on the 3 first levels, you can not lose, even if you play like an idiot.
Downtime posted 03-03-99 05:31 AM ET
The AI is better than any I have seen yet but it's still not good enough. I am up to level 5 and I am about to abandon a game at around 2250 because I already have it wrapped up. Santiago and Miriam have both surrendered and none of the others have even half of my population. I lose interest after it's clear I am going to win- or lose either.
The AI lets you grab too much space early in the game unless you have a rotten starting position, in which case you lose early because the AI races are good at finishing off a weak opponent. You can't be clever if you've nothing to be clever with.
A quick start is the key; if you take more space than you need your rivals will never catch up.
George posted 03-04-99 05:07 PM ET
I usually play Yang. I found that if I play on any map with a lot of land, I can usually win even before chaos guns at the thinker level. Map with mostly water, however, presents a bigger challange since I can't grab a lot of land early on or bully the other factions to give me tech.
My conculsion is, for war-like factions, LB, Sur, Hive, watery world presents a bigger chalange, while UoP, Gaian, and Morgan, will enjoy the isolation a watery world provides early in the game.
Playing as Yang, with the Command Nexus early, it's really hard to lost even with bad starting locations. The AI is quite good, but it soon falls into predictable patterns. Only with Miriam or Santiago as an early neighbour did I ever have to straggle.
George
Khan Singh posted 03-05-99 05:43 PM ET
Sure. As the Morganites I ran out of orbital defense pods before Yang ran out of Planetbusters. Bye bye Morgan Industries!
But I will agree that good as the AI is, it does have a hard time dealing with late game weaponry.
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Author	Topic: Anyone actually lose
Ashbri	posted 02-28-99 12:31 PM ET I was curious if anyone has actually played till the end and lost? I figure this might be a indication if AI is good if it can beat someone who may not be really trying.
Ashbri	posted 02-28-99 11:27 PM ET Shameless post to move this back to the top of the heap.
Cat	posted 03-01-99 12:35 AM ET How can you play to the end and lose? Do you mean get near the end only to be defeated by one of the other factions? Otherwise you can't lose - if it's just a matter of time running out, you don't really actually lose - you still get a rating.
Brother Greg	posted 03-01-99 12:45 AM ET I think they meant playing until defeated, as opposed to starting to go badly, then giving up and starting a new game.
timbrom	posted 03-01-99 07:34 AM ET I've only played one game to the end so far, and that on the easiest level, to get an idea of things. Looks like a good Civ player will wax the AI. Can't speak for the tougher levels but I'm going for #3 next in the hope of getting a real challenge.
Zoetrope	posted 03-03-99 01:44 AM ET I'm not one of those who fights to the bitter end of a losing chess match. It's courtesy to resign - and leaves you with time for another match! So far I've played as Zakharov, Deirdre, Yang and Lal, and on the first three levels I've won every game that didn't get too slow because it was a Huge Land map on my P-100. Such slow games I expect to be playing for a few weeks yet! Unless I can find a great optimisation like the `instant transit' option that the manual says is available. At Librarian (#4) however, I've played several games in a row as Zakharov and been beaten badly. I was playing Ironman (which I hadn't on the lower levels), but the main reason was an unfavorable starting location (for example, hemmed in on a small peninsula) compounded by poor diplomatic judgment of the rivals' seriousness causing me to turn down a demand at a bad time, and being Vendetta'd by a vastly superior opponent, or two, or three. OTOH as Lal and Yang I had no trouble winning Librarian. Lal outgrew everyone by four to one well before turn 200 so I won by vote against everyone else's wishes and Yang inexorably ground them down.
PUSH	posted 03-03-99 03:08 AM ET That's true, on the 3 first levels, you can not lose, even if you play like an idiot.
Downtime	posted 03-03-99 05:31 AM ET The AI is better than any I have seen yet but it's still not good enough. I am up to level 5 and I am about to abandon a game at around 2250 because I already have it wrapped up. Santiago and Miriam have both surrendered and none of the others have even half of my population. I lose interest after it's clear I am going to win- or lose either. The AI lets you grab too much space early in the game unless you have a rotten starting position, in which case you lose early because the AI races are good at finishing off a weak opponent. You can't be clever if you've nothing to be clever with. A quick start is the key; if you take more space than you need your rivals will never catch up.
George	posted 03-04-99 05:07 PM ET I usually play Yang. I found that if I play on any map with a lot of land, I can usually win even before chaos guns at the thinker level. Map with mostly water, however, presents a bigger challange since I can't grab a lot of land early on or bully the other factions to give me tech. My conculsion is, for war-like factions, LB, Sur, Hive, watery world presents a bigger chalange, while UoP, Gaian, and Morgan, will enjoy the isolation a watery world provides early in the game. Playing as Yang, with the Command Nexus early, it's really hard to lost even with bad starting locations. The AI is quite good, but it soon falls into predictable patterns. Only with Miriam or Santiago as an early neighbour did I ever have to straggle. George
Khan Singh	posted 03-05-99 05:43 PM ET Sure. As the Morganites I ran out of orbital defense pods before Yang ran out of Planetbusters. Bye bye Morgan Industries! But I will agree that good as the AI is, it does have a hard time dealing with late game weaponry.