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Author Topic:   Discussion: Diplomacy improvements

Freddz posted 02-25-99 02:30 PM ET
I think that how trustworthy a player/faction is should stated right under what the faction says when they contact you. This info can be crucial AND fun when making deals especially in Multiplayer.
More, I think the votes you have should be stated more clearly somewhere. Are they stated at all?
Freddz posted 02-25-99 02:32 PM ET
And yes that was my 2 suggestions. Feel free to post replies or more suggestions here.
Cheers
RobKid posted 02-25-99 02:51 PM ET
IIRC, for planetary governor and supreme leader elections, your votes are equal to the total population of your cities, plus any modifiers (i.e. Peacekeepers, Empath Guild, etc.). It's in the manual or the datalinks one.
Arnelos posted 02-25-99 04:38 PM ET
The most important piece of intelligence information that is missing for the human players in SMAC is:
Not knowing your opponents' social engineering information.
While the AI players instantly know your social engineering choices and use it as the primary component of their relationship with you...the human players do not have access to this information. Personally, I find this to be an egregious case where the AI players are given critical intelligence information that is totally denied to the Human players...(or at least I certainly haven't found a way to find out yet)
I REALLY think that you ought to have an easy way of knowing the other players' social engineering choices in an easy and efficient manner from the intelligence files AND when in diplomacy with a player. The current system makes the AI players play off of ideology and the Human players have no idea what the ideological differences even are between factions at any given time.
That's my two cents on what's missing from diplomacy (this is NEEDED and should be included in a patch. Why it is missing in the game I have no idea...)
Borodino posted 02-25-99 07:21 PM ET
I'd never thought about that Arnelos, but it makes a lot of sense. This would probably be a useful feature.
Wraithfire posted 02-25-99 09:45 PM ET
This is something I posted over in the bugs section, but I think it applies here:
Dear Faraxis,
I don't know if this is a bug or not, but I was playing my first game (full version), and was in the midst of a war with yang when I asked for a vote for Supreme ruler... I won and Yang dessented (although I thought only Miriam did that ;-) so everyone (Morgan & Santiago, my Pact Brothers/Sisters) declared vendetta (I assume that even if they weren't my Pact brothers that they would have joined in the Vendetta against the Hive (unless I was in vendetta with them and then... anyways... i take it to the Hive while the Hive takes it to my allies... I however was producing more units (at elite status) and soon over ran every base excepting a couple here and there... with the Hive on the ropes my allies jumped in finally... Morgan took a city Held by the Hive, but right next to the Spartans... and that's when it happened... It's my belief that either Yang or Santiago famed me for something (most likely Santiago since the Hive had no othe bases on that continent... anyway Morgan declares vendetta on me! His Supreme Leader so I assume that now just like yang I have to annialate Morgan to the last... Next couple of rounds yang has on undefended base left and I enter it... poof game over!!! My question to you is... What about my war with Morgan? After Yang's interigation (can't spell) did Morgan just say "I know we are in the middle of a war and all, but I did vote for you that one time for Supreme Ruler..."
So I restarted the game before I took Yang's last city and this time used atrocities against Morgan and had Santiago against me, I then took Yang's outpost and bam! Gameover... So do the factions only get one chance to dessent after your voted for Supreme Ruler? If so this seems quite strange b/c as I think I've shown here sometimes a faction might not be as ambiable to their "Supreme Leader" as time goes on and strife grows... Also if your Supreme Ruler should the other factions try to frame you for probes after all I assumed everyone was either with you or against you after you become Supreme Ruler... or maybe they just pretend, but then why would the game end if one faction was just "going along" with your election and was in fact just trying to be subversive... Well I hope I gave you a few things to think upon... and perhaps work out... Sincerly, Wraithfire
Freddz posted 02-25-99 10:36 PM ET
Thanks for the posts.
And thanks for the info Robkid. Guess I'm lazy, but I still think a sum of my votes and the other factions' somewhere clearly won't hurt the game.
Arnelos, good suggestion, I have missed knowing opponents governments too. It's annoying when you look at an opponents profile and for Morgan it always says Agenda:free market when what I really wanna know how the faction is ruled right now.
P.S Seems like a bug to me, Wraith
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Author	Topic: Discussion: Diplomacy improvements
Freddz	posted 02-25-99 02:30 PM ET I think that how trustworthy a player/faction is should stated right under what the faction says when they contact you. This info can be crucial AND fun when making deals especially in Multiplayer. More, I think the votes you have should be stated more clearly somewhere. Are they stated at all?
Freddz	posted 02-25-99 02:32 PM ET And yes that was my 2 suggestions. Feel free to post replies or more suggestions here. Cheers
RobKid	posted 02-25-99 02:51 PM ET IIRC, for planetary governor and supreme leader elections, your votes are equal to the total population of your cities, plus any modifiers (i.e. Peacekeepers, Empath Guild, etc.). It's in the manual or the datalinks one.
Arnelos	posted 02-25-99 04:38 PM ET The most important piece of intelligence information that is missing for the human players in SMAC is: Not knowing your opponents' social engineering information. While the AI players instantly know your social engineering choices and use it as the primary component of their relationship with you...the human players do not have access to this information. Personally, I find this to be an egregious case where the AI players are given critical intelligence information that is totally denied to the Human players...(or at least I certainly haven't found a way to find out yet) I REALLY think that you ought to have an easy way of knowing the other players' social engineering choices in an easy and efficient manner from the intelligence files AND when in diplomacy with a player. The current system makes the AI players play off of ideology and the Human players have no idea what the ideological differences even are between factions at any given time. That's my two cents on what's missing from diplomacy (this is NEEDED and should be included in a patch. Why it is missing in the game I have no idea...)
Borodino	posted 02-25-99 07:21 PM ET I'd never thought about that Arnelos, but it makes a lot of sense. This would probably be a useful feature.
Wraithfire	posted 02-25-99 09:45 PM ET This is something I posted over in the bugs section, but I think it applies here: Dear Faraxis, I don't know if this is a bug or not, but I was playing my first game (full version), and was in the midst of a war with yang when I asked for a vote for Supreme ruler... I won and Yang dessented (although I thought only Miriam did that ;-) so everyone (Morgan & Santiago, my Pact Brothers/Sisters) declared vendetta (I assume that even if they weren't my Pact brothers that they would have joined in the Vendetta against the Hive (unless I was in vendetta with them and then... anyways... i take it to the Hive while the Hive takes it to my allies... I however was producing more units (at elite status) and soon over ran every base excepting a couple here and there... with the Hive on the ropes my allies jumped in finally... Morgan took a city Held by the Hive, but right next to the Spartans... and that's when it happened... It's my belief that either Yang or Santiago famed me for something (most likely Santiago since the Hive had no othe bases on that continent... anyway Morgan declares vendetta on me! His Supreme Leader so I assume that now just like yang I have to annialate Morgan to the last... Next couple of rounds yang has on undefended base left and I enter it... poof game over!!! My question to you is... What about my war with Morgan? After Yang's interigation (can't spell) did Morgan just say "I know we are in the middle of a war and all, but I did vote for you that one time for Supreme Ruler..." So I restarted the game before I took Yang's last city and this time used atrocities against Morgan and had Santiago against me, I then took Yang's outpost and bam! Gameover... So do the factions only get one chance to dessent after your voted for Supreme Ruler? If so this seems quite strange b/c as I think I've shown here sometimes a faction might not be as ambiable to their "Supreme Leader" as time goes on and strife grows... Also if your Supreme Ruler should the other factions try to frame you for probes after all I assumed everyone was either with you or against you after you become Supreme Ruler... or maybe they just pretend, but then why would the game end if one faction was just "going along" with your election and was in fact just trying to be subversive... Well I hope I gave you a few things to think upon... and perhaps work out... Sincerly, Wraithfire
Freddz	posted 02-25-99 10:36 PM ET Thanks for the posts. And thanks for the info Robkid. Guess I'm lazy, but I still think a sum of my votes and the other factions' somewhere clearly won't hurt the game. Arnelos, good suggestion, I have missed knowing opponents governments too. It's annoying when you look at an opponents profile and for Morgan it always says Agenda:free market when what I really wanna know how the faction is ruled right now. P.S Seems like a bug to me, Wraith