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Author Topic:   Workshop improvements

patlafreniere posted 02-19-99 11:18 AM ET
1- auto generate new designs is useless ... too many units I will never build. The auto designer needs to be somehow re-worked for it to be useful (especially in the end game when there are way too many obsolete designs that were never used).
2- There should be a option to 'delete' obsoleted designs. When you have no more units of a given type in existence and you do not intend to ever build them again, you should be able to make the design dissapear from the list of 'obsolete' designs. What purpose does having a record of these designs serve?
3- some kind of 'page down' functionality in the workshop which allows the horizontal list of designs to shift left or right one full page not just one design at a time. Try playing an end game with 'auto design' on, and then try and upgrade all units of an old design. It can take literally minutes to find the obsolete design in the list.
4- fix the bug that sometimes forces me to close the build screen and re-open it in order to see the new design I just created.
5- (as was mentioned in another thread) Merge the 'unit under production' and build queue. Having to close and re-open the build screen has no purpose. (-1 efficiency for the SMAC interface)
CEO Bernard posted 02-19-99 11:22 AM ET
I agree 100% about the auto-designer. Please do not take offense, but just in case you didn't know you can turn it off in the preferences menu (your letter suggests you know this, but you never know).
Chris Pine FIRAXIS posted 02-19-99 11:46 AM ET
3) Did you try page-up and page-down? I though these did work in the Unit Design screen, along with Home and End. I never tried it, though, since I just leave 'auto-generate new units' off.
patlafreniere posted 02-19-99 01:10 PM ET
Ya, I tried pgup and pgdown to no avail. Is it possible that how you get to the workshop determines what you can do when you are there?
Most of the time I open the workshop screen by right clicking a design in the 'build' screen (as opposed to hitting 'u' or selecting the option from the menu).
I haven't tried HOME and END yet.
I find that even with 'auto design' off that over the course of a game you generate enough different designs that navigating through them becomes tiresome. Please, please, please give me an new option that removes unused, obsolete designs.
PS. Great game nevertheless
taterbill posted 02-19-99 01:25 PM ET
Page Up and Page Down do work for me.
However, all is not kosher in workshop land.
The most frustrating thing for me is that every time I apply a change to a design, the list at the bottom gets repositioned away from where I was previously. I'm a software developer (business software, not games, but still...) and this seems like a simple glitch to fix. Save the position index and restore to it! If I obsoleted a design, restore position to the next non-obsolete design.
If it were not for this problem, the paging issue would not be so vexing. By the way, the same fix would make the production list screen easier to use to.
Also, there should be a check box on the design screen that would allow/disallow governors from making the unit. I have some specialized designs that I do not want to obsolete (air trasports, trance drop scouts, etc) since I want them to appear on my production list, but I don't want the governors making them either. I now have about eight needle jets transports that I really didn't want. An enhancement, not a fix, but still pretty easy, nevertheless.
What do you think?
patlafreniere posted 02-19-99 03:07 PM ET
Sure, an 'autobuild allowed' toggle would be nice but why not adress this issue through an enhancement of the govoners(sp?)? IE: build any of these but none of these (where these are buildings/units/secret projects/etc).
Yes, I know you can save and apply custom queues but they are limited. Wouldn't it be nice if you could could control what each of the four govoners did? Maybe I want a 'Land Unit' govoner or maybe 'Defence buildings only'. It doesn't need to be elegant, an INI file or something would do just fine.
On the topic of the build screen, a minor fix I'd like to see is the ability to reorganize the order of the items in the list. Just click and drag the box and the new order will be recognized from then on. (Alright maybe its not minor but it sure would be nice )
RobKid posted 02-19-99 03:16 PM ET
Since I didn't see a reply to it...
2) Use the retire button. This will delete the design (unless it's one of the basic ones you don't have to prototype like Scout Patrol, Former, Colony Pod, etc.) and disband all current units of that design.
4) Often, I notice the new unit has been designed, but it was placed off of the current list. Scrolling left or right will reveal it. However, you may have actually found a bug.
marc420w posted 02-19-99 05:11 PM ET
Page up and Page down shift the entire list left or right by one screen for me. Home and End work as well.
There is an option for "AutoPrune Obsolete Designs" in one of the Preferences screens. I'm not entirely sure what it does yet. But I think its helping out.
I'm playing a game where I had Auto-Design on just to see what it does. I'm pretty well sick of it. I have to go through and Retire and Obsolete my designs every once in a while......maybe in a multiplayer game when I'm in a hurry I'd use it again.
weregamer posted 02-19-99 09:19 PM ET
"I know you can save and apply custom build queues [...]"
HOW? HOW? I really want to have a custom queue for newly-formed colonies. The minute saved per colony would add up pretty fast...
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS posted 02-19-99 11:04 PM ET
Right-click on the queue to save and load templates.
jkm
firaxis games
Goncyn posted 02-20-99 03:26 PM ET
I would very much like to see the production and queue interfaces merged--that was the first thing I thought when I saw it. It seems very clunky to have to move between two screens in order to change queues.
I would also like to see a change in how it handles repositioning of the list after creating a new design or making a current one obsolete. The current design inevitably means a lot of scrolling back and forth. For example:
- I would not like to be moved to the obsolete section after making a design obsolete. I don't need to do anything else to it, because it's obsolete now. I probably have other designs I want to nix, so move the selection to the nearest current unit instead.
- I would not like to be moved to the target design after upgrading all units of an old design to a new one. I probably have other old design I want to upgrade and would rather not have to scroll back to them.
Thank you for listening for my two cents.
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Author	Topic: Workshop improvements
patlafreniere	posted 02-19-99 11:18 AM ET 1- auto generate new designs is useless ... too many units I will never build. The auto designer needs to be somehow re-worked for it to be useful (especially in the end game when there are way too many obsolete designs that were never used). 2- There should be a option to 'delete' obsoleted designs. When you have no more units of a given type in existence and you do not intend to ever build them again, you should be able to make the design dissapear from the list of 'obsolete' designs. What purpose does having a record of these designs serve? 3- some kind of 'page down' functionality in the workshop which allows the horizontal list of designs to shift left or right one full page not just one design at a time. Try playing an end game with 'auto design' on, and then try and upgrade all units of an old design. It can take literally minutes to find the obsolete design in the list. 4- fix the bug that sometimes forces me to close the build screen and re-open it in order to see the new design I just created. 5- (as was mentioned in another thread) Merge the 'unit under production' and build queue. Having to close and re-open the build screen has no purpose. (-1 efficiency for the SMAC interface)
CEO Bernard	posted 02-19-99 11:22 AM ET I agree 100% about the auto-designer. Please do not take offense, but just in case you didn't know you can turn it off in the preferences menu (your letter suggests you know this, but you never know).
Chris Pine FIRAXIS	posted 02-19-99 11:46 AM ET 3) Did you try page-up and page-down? I though these did work in the Unit Design screen, along with Home and End. I never tried it, though, since I just leave 'auto-generate new units' off.
patlafreniere	posted 02-19-99 01:10 PM ET Ya, I tried pgup and pgdown to no avail. Is it possible that how you get to the workshop determines what you can do when you are there? Most of the time I open the workshop screen by right clicking a design in the 'build' screen (as opposed to hitting 'u' or selecting the option from the menu). I haven't tried HOME and END yet. I find that even with 'auto design' off that over the course of a game you generate enough different designs that navigating through them becomes tiresome. Please, please, please give me an new option that removes unused, obsolete designs. PS. Great game nevertheless
taterbill	posted 02-19-99 01:25 PM ET Page Up and Page Down do work for me. However, all is not kosher in workshop land. The most frustrating thing for me is that every time I apply a change to a design, the list at the bottom gets repositioned away from where I was previously. I'm a software developer (business software, not games, but still...) and this seems like a simple glitch to fix. Save the position index and restore to it! If I obsoleted a design, restore position to the next non-obsolete design. If it were not for this problem, the paging issue would not be so vexing. By the way, the same fix would make the production list screen easier to use to. Also, there should be a check box on the design screen that would allow/disallow governors from making the unit. I have some specialized designs that I do not want to obsolete (air trasports, trance drop scouts, etc) since I want them to appear on my production list, but I don't want the governors making them either. I now have about eight needle jets transports that I really didn't want. An enhancement, not a fix, but still pretty easy, nevertheless. What do you think?
patlafreniere	posted 02-19-99 03:07 PM ET Sure, an 'autobuild allowed' toggle would be nice but why not adress this issue through an enhancement of the govoners(sp?)? IE: build any of these but none of these (where these are buildings/units/secret projects/etc). Yes, I know you can save and apply custom queues but they are limited. Wouldn't it be nice if you could could control what each of the four govoners did? Maybe I want a 'Land Unit' govoner or maybe 'Defence buildings only'. It doesn't need to be elegant, an INI file or something would do just fine. On the topic of the build screen, a minor fix I'd like to see is the ability to reorganize the order of the items in the list. Just click and drag the box and the new order will be recognized from then on. (Alright maybe its not minor but it sure would be nice )
RobKid	posted 02-19-99 03:16 PM ET Since I didn't see a reply to it... 2) Use the retire button. This will delete the design (unless it's one of the basic ones you don't have to prototype like Scout Patrol, Former, Colony Pod, etc.) and disband all current units of that design. 4) Often, I notice the new unit has been designed, but it was placed off of the current list. Scrolling left or right will reveal it. However, you may have actually found a bug.
marc420w	posted 02-19-99 05:11 PM ET Page up and Page down shift the entire list left or right by one screen for me. Home and End work as well. There is an option for "AutoPrune Obsolete Designs" in one of the Preferences screens. I'm not entirely sure what it does yet. But I think its helping out. I'm playing a game where I had Auto-Design on just to see what it does. I'm pretty well sick of it. I have to go through and Retire and Obsolete my designs every once in a while......maybe in a multiplayer game when I'm in a hurry I'd use it again.
weregamer	posted 02-19-99 09:19 PM ET "I know you can save and apply custom build queues [...]" HOW? HOW? I really want to have a custom queue for newly-formed colonies. The minute saved per colony would add up pretty fast...
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS	posted 02-19-99 11:04 PM ET Right-click on the queue to save and load templates. jkm firaxis games
Goncyn	posted 02-20-99 03:26 PM ET I would very much like to see the production and queue interfaces merged--that was the first thing I thought when I saw it. It seems very clunky to have to move between two screens in order to change queues. I would also like to see a change in how it handles repositioning of the list after creating a new design or making a current one obsolete. The current design inevitably means a lot of scrolling back and forth. For example: - I would not like to be moved to the obsolete section after making a design obsolete. I don't need to do anything else to it, because it's obsolete now. I probably have other designs I want to nix, so move the selection to the nearest current unit instead. - I would not like to be moved to the target design after upgrading all units of an old design to a new one. I probably have other old design I want to upgrade and would rather not have to scroll back to them. Thank you for listening for my two cents.