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Author Topic:   Nagging on a great game ...

MadKraut posted 02-10-99 09:03 PM ET
Well, got my SMAC today. Great game ! I just have a small complaint. No, it's not the slow moving units (i use quick-move all units anyway). It's the relative "sluggishness" of the game when it comes to menues and in the selection of production in cities. Also in the unit-building screen there is "slugishness". Let me explain....
When i play, i play fast (at least after i've gotten used to the game a bit). I like to zip through menus and production screens in miliseconds, scanning the info and clicking all the way. In alpha centauri, the clicking with the mouse on the production-pictures in the city screen seems slow. Often i feel i have to click "hard" to select production. It also seems that menus and screen take quite longe to load up (relative to other games AND the demo). In the demo, i can remember the whole thing being much smoother.
Maybe it's just me, but if any of you have experienced the same "slugishness" in the controls i would appretiate a response.
Kraut
ps. No flames people ... no reason for that ... doh ...

Seely posted 02-10-99 11:17 PM ET
I think a lot of it depends on the speed of your system-- I haven't noticed any slugishness, but then I'm running a PII 450. On my old 133, the demo ran pretty sluggish, and I encountered the "hard click" problem in production... just something to keep in mind...
Brother Greg posted 02-11-99 12:11 AM ET
Also another thing to consider is posting this in the Support and Troubleshooting Forum - you're more likely to get support for problems such as "slugishness" there.
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS posted 02-11-99 09:51 AM ET
There is always 800x600 or more RAM.
jkm
firaxis games
RobKid posted 02-11-99 10:45 AM ET
How much RAM do you consider enough? I have 96MB of RAM and a swap file managed by Windows that's over 100MB and I still had similar problems with the 1.1 demo. It took around a minute to a minute and a half for the faction summary in the message window to display, whereas it took maybe 10 seconds in the 1.0 demo. About the only thing I don't have top of the line in my computer is the processor (it's a Pentium Pro 200). Is this program really that processor intensive? FYI, I have a brand new STB Velocity 4400 with 16MB onboard memory.
Mark D posted 02-11-99 11:23 AM ET
You must have some other problems in your machine, if it is taking over a minute to display a message. Better contact the troubleshooting folks, but also see what other processes you have running in parallel with the game. For best performance, use the CNTL+ALT+DEL keys to bring up the current active programs, and then terminate all of them except for Explorer and Systray.
Old_Guy posted 02-11-99 11:38 AM ET
I loaded the low-res units and the game still flies on my machine (128RAM, PII 400). I would also check your Startup menu and your Taskbar (lower right) to see what programs are loading when your machine boots. It seems that the more programs you install, the more memory gets taken before you even open a program yourself!
marc420w posted 02-11-99 12:33 PM ET
Well, this seems like a wonderful opportunity for me to rant on one of my favorite topics. In short, why does a game like SMAC have to be so processor and memory intensive. IMHO, it seems that game companies go to great extents to add extra add-ons that both add little or nothing to the play of the game and take up system resources or make the game play slow.
Hopefully someone at the company will see this and realize that (many)people buy these types of games for the strategy play. I really don't care about, and will turn off at the first opportunity, any high-res units, music, movies, sound effects, little explosion animations, etc.
What I really want is a good strategy game. I want the logic of the game to work well. I want options for various strategies that I can try. And an AI that can really play the game would be wonderful.
SMAC gets very high marks in most of these regards. But the demo was "sluggish" on my machine as well. Not deathly slow...(Deadlock 2 got uninstalled from my machine in two days because of being deadly slow). But that feeling of "clicking hard" on a button sounds familiar.
It would seem to be possible to design a strategy game that does not need a Pentium II 450 Mhz machine to run. The original Civ ran quite nicely on my 486. And at its core, this is still really the same concept of a game. Give users the options to turn off all the "eye-candy" and focus on playing the game.
zaz posted 02-11-99 12:37 PM ET
I have a P166, 80MB RAM, but I did a complete install (385MB) and have not experienced any sluggishness. First game is on Large map as well. Many of the suggestions in the install manual will help most people. (Defragging your drive, switching to 800x600 etc.)
UndertakerAPB posted 02-11-99 12:51 PM ET
Well now I did a complete install also and since I am near-sightsighted I always used 800x600.And I have a Pentium2-300 with 98MB RAM.I even set the supplemental cache on my computer and u know what I still have slugginess has the host mentioned.Now zaz if u are not detecting slow units and even having to press the change button twice with the speed of your computer then I have to admit your pretty lucky.I see many complaints in the forum about slugginess and these guys have p2-233 and over....Kind of strange the better the computer the slower the game hey.
Yrth posted 02-11-99 01:45 PM ET
I'm using 1024 video mode. When I build a wonder, it seems to switch to 800 to play the movie? Should that be happening?
Wonder is built. Black screen, I can hear the sound that accompanies a switch of resolution (similar to when a monitor first powers up...you know the one I'm talking about?) and then the movie plays, then seems to switch back to 1024.
Just want to know if this is normal or if there is a workaround. (other than playing at 800)
zaz posted 02-11-99 04:02 PM ET
Also it's good to have alot of free hard-drive space and a drive with a high transfer rate and quick seek-time. I installed on a brand new 8.4GB drive, so it's almost empty except for SMAC.
RobKid posted 02-11-99 04:15 PM ET
I'm going to try to free more hard-drive space, but I just feel that having a total of almost 200MB of some type of memory should be enough for anything. I of course have nothing else running. Also, I don't like the suggestion to switch to 800x600 (although I'll try it once I get the game). I bought a top of the line graphics card for a reason. If I can run Jedi Knight in 1280x1024 24-bit color without any performance problems when it has to update the whole screen, there should be no problems with a game running in 1024x768 with 8-bit color only updating about a 100x100 pixel area. Just my personal opinion. BTW, my machine is a Gateway with pretty good internals. I never have performance problems with any other programs, including compilers (yes, I'm a programmer).
Phlegm posted 02-11-99 04:40 PM ET
Strange, the game so far runs fine on my machine, and with all the bells-and-whistles turned on. It chugs a little on a big map with lots of stuff going on but that's about it. And I only have a PPro 200... 64M RAM, STB 2M card, and a real piece of crap cd rom. oh yeah, I also have FAT32 on my hard drive, I think most computers have it these days but if not, it's worth a shot to convert the drive maybe.. EVERYTHING runs faster afterwards.
Joe Average posted 02-11-99 04:56 PM ET
About the faction summary thing...I've noticed that the speed it takes for this to get displayed has to do with how much is on the screen, if you want to get the info fast, just click on an unexplored map square and notice the diffrence. (if it was slow in the first place)
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS posted 02-11-99 05:08 PM ET
You can also left-click on the display to "finish" the update.
jkm
firaxis games
MadKraut posted 02-11-99 05:41 PM ET
Well, i tried some things to get the sluggishness away. I turned off music (annoying after a while anyway) and i turned off those 'sliding' menus and a few other extras. It still is very slow in the unit building screen and when you're generally cueing/selecting production in a city. Never noticed this in demo 1.0 ...
Would be really great if some sort of fix can be made for this. I'm gonna try the low-res gfx, but i doubt that that will help since the troubles are mainly in production windows.
Kraut
ps. BTW, did i mention i have over 500mb free on my HD and 96MB of edo ram? Not the best processor though ... ppro200 ...
Gergi posted 02-11-99 06:07 PM ET
I have a 133MhZ with 48MB Edo Ram and a 6MB video card. while the game doesn't run exactly what I would call fast, it's still not nearly as slow as many of you are talking about. I think, like some of the others are saying, maybe you have too many other open things open at once, especially in your system tray. It would be nice if the game ran a little smoother/faster, though. I'm using demo 1.1.
UndertakerAPB posted 02-11-99 07:40 PM ET
All I can say about this topic is demo 1.1 moves a lot faster than the game itself.And I also compared the add-on graphics that firaxis did for 1.1 and it seems to my eyes that it looks better than the orginal game.If u guys noticed just a slight difference in the demo than the game please reply because I certainly feel the difference in speed.....
Tykyn posted 02-12-99 06:22 PM ET
Think I have some legitimate gripes. Think they could more properly be called glaring omissions.
1. Why can't we choose color of the faction?
2. Why no adjustable default builds?
3. Can't seem to change support for a unit without putting it on hold first.
4. These pods are stuff we brought with us to help us. So why are so many of them negative?
Good game just wondering.
Spoe posted 02-12-99 06:25 PM ET
3. Can't seem to change support for a unit without putting it on hold first.
CTRL-H, IIRC.
4. These pods are stuff we brought with us to help us. So why are so many of them negative?
Play balance? Think of it as the pod broke open upon landing and had nasty side effects on the surrounding areas.
PrinceBimz posted 02-12-99 07:13 PM ET
None of those sluggish problems here. I have a Compaq 233mmx,64megs, 2mb video with Monster3D(which i don't think SMAC is using). Maybe alot of it has to do with system configuration or HD controllers. SMAC as well as just about every other TBS game does not require a mega system to run. Don't know why you guys with the P2's are have speed problems with a TBS game. Check the DX6 drivers, that could have ALOT to do about it. Go to DX diagnostics and perform the tests on video and sound mainly to see if it passes them, if not, I would almost bet that that could be the problem.
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Author	Topic: Nagging on a great game ...
MadKraut	posted 02-10-99 09:03 PM ET Well, got my SMAC today. Great game ! I just have a small complaint. No, it's not the slow moving units (i use quick-move all units anyway). It's the relative "sluggishness" of the game when it comes to menues and in the selection of production in cities. Also in the unit-building screen there is "slugishness". Let me explain.... When i play, i play fast (at least after i've gotten used to the game a bit). I like to zip through menus and production screens in miliseconds, scanning the info and clicking all the way. In alpha centauri, the clicking with the mouse on the production-pictures in the city screen seems slow. Often i feel i have to click "hard" to select production. It also seems that menus and screen take quite longe to load up (relative to other games AND the demo). In the demo, i can remember the whole thing being much smoother. Maybe it's just me, but if any of you have experienced the same "slugishness" in the controls i would appretiate a response. Kraut ps. No flames people ... no reason for that ... doh ...
Seely	posted 02-10-99 11:17 PM ET I think a lot of it depends on the speed of your system-- I haven't noticed any slugishness, but then I'm running a PII 450. On my old 133, the demo ran pretty sluggish, and I encountered the "hard click" problem in production... just something to keep in mind...
Brother Greg	posted 02-11-99 12:11 AM ET Also another thing to consider is posting this in the Support and Troubleshooting Forum - you're more likely to get support for problems such as "slugishness" there.
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS	posted 02-11-99 09:51 AM ET There is always 800x600 or more RAM. jkm firaxis games
RobKid	posted 02-11-99 10:45 AM ET How much RAM do you consider enough? I have 96MB of RAM and a swap file managed by Windows that's over 100MB and I still had similar problems with the 1.1 demo. It took around a minute to a minute and a half for the faction summary in the message window to display, whereas it took maybe 10 seconds in the 1.0 demo. About the only thing I don't have top of the line in my computer is the processor (it's a Pentium Pro 200). Is this program really that processor intensive? FYI, I have a brand new STB Velocity 4400 with 16MB onboard memory.
Mark D	posted 02-11-99 11:23 AM ET You must have some other problems in your machine, if it is taking over a minute to display a message. Better contact the troubleshooting folks, but also see what other processes you have running in parallel with the game. For best performance, use the CNTL+ALT+DEL keys to bring up the current active programs, and then terminate all of them except for Explorer and Systray.
Old_Guy	posted 02-11-99 11:38 AM ET I loaded the low-res units and the game still flies on my machine (128RAM, PII 400). I would also check your Startup menu and your Taskbar (lower right) to see what programs are loading when your machine boots. It seems that the more programs you install, the more memory gets taken before you even open a program yourself!
marc420w	posted 02-11-99 12:33 PM ET Well, this seems like a wonderful opportunity for me to rant on one of my favorite topics. In short, why does a game like SMAC have to be so processor and memory intensive. IMHO, it seems that game companies go to great extents to add extra add-ons that both add little or nothing to the play of the game and take up system resources or make the game play slow. Hopefully someone at the company will see this and realize that (many)people buy these types of games for the strategy play. I really don't care about, and will turn off at the first opportunity, any high-res units, music, movies, sound effects, little explosion animations, etc. What I really want is a good strategy game. I want the logic of the game to work well. I want options for various strategies that I can try. And an AI that can really play the game would be wonderful. SMAC gets very high marks in most of these regards. But the demo was "sluggish" on my machine as well. Not deathly slow...(Deadlock 2 got uninstalled from my machine in two days because of being deadly slow). But that feeling of "clicking hard" on a button sounds familiar. It would seem to be possible to design a strategy game that does not need a Pentium II 450 Mhz machine to run. The original Civ ran quite nicely on my 486. And at its core, this is still really the same concept of a game. Give users the options to turn off all the "eye-candy" and focus on playing the game.
zaz	posted 02-11-99 12:37 PM ET I have a P166, 80MB RAM, but I did a complete install (385MB) and have not experienced any sluggishness. First game is on Large map as well. Many of the suggestions in the install manual will help most people. (Defragging your drive, switching to 800x600 etc.)
UndertakerAPB	posted 02-11-99 12:51 PM ET Well now I did a complete install also and since I am near-sightsighted I always used 800x600.And I have a Pentium2-300 with 98MB RAM.I even set the supplemental cache on my computer and u know what I still have slugginess has the host mentioned.Now zaz if u are not detecting slow units and even having to press the change button twice with the speed of your computer then I have to admit your pretty lucky.I see many complaints in the forum about slugginess and these guys have p2-233 and over....Kind of strange the better the computer the slower the game hey.
Yrth	posted 02-11-99 01:45 PM ET I'm using 1024 video mode. When I build a wonder, it seems to switch to 800 to play the movie? Should that be happening? Wonder is built. Black screen, I can hear the sound that accompanies a switch of resolution (similar to when a monitor first powers up...you know the one I'm talking about?) and then the movie plays, then seems to switch back to 1024. Just want to know if this is normal or if there is a workaround. (other than playing at 800)
zaz	posted 02-11-99 04:02 PM ET Also it's good to have alot of free hard-drive space and a drive with a high transfer rate and quick seek-time. I installed on a brand new 8.4GB drive, so it's almost empty except for SMAC.
RobKid	posted 02-11-99 04:15 PM ET I'm going to try to free more hard-drive space, but I just feel that having a total of almost 200MB of some type of memory should be enough for anything. I of course have nothing else running. Also, I don't like the suggestion to switch to 800x600 (although I'll try it once I get the game). I bought a top of the line graphics card for a reason. If I can run Jedi Knight in 1280x1024 24-bit color without any performance problems when it has to update the whole screen, there should be no problems with a game running in 1024x768 with 8-bit color only updating about a 100x100 pixel area. Just my personal opinion. BTW, my machine is a Gateway with pretty good internals. I never have performance problems with any other programs, including compilers (yes, I'm a programmer).
Phlegm	posted 02-11-99 04:40 PM ET Strange, the game so far runs fine on my machine, and with all the bells-and-whistles turned on. It chugs a little on a big map with lots of stuff going on but that's about it. And I only have a PPro 200... 64M RAM, STB 2M card, and a real piece of crap cd rom. oh yeah, I also have FAT32 on my hard drive, I think most computers have it these days but if not, it's worth a shot to convert the drive maybe.. EVERYTHING runs faster afterwards.
Joe Average	posted 02-11-99 04:56 PM ET About the faction summary thing...I've noticed that the speed it takes for this to get displayed has to do with how much is on the screen, if you want to get the info fast, just click on an unexplored map square and notice the diffrence. (if it was slow in the first place)
Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS	posted 02-11-99 05:08 PM ET You can also left-click on the display to "finish" the update. jkm firaxis games
MadKraut	posted 02-11-99 05:41 PM ET Well, i tried some things to get the sluggishness away. I turned off music (annoying after a while anyway) and i turned off those 'sliding' menus and a few other extras. It still is very slow in the unit building screen and when you're generally cueing/selecting production in a city. Never noticed this in demo 1.0 ... Would be really great if some sort of fix can be made for this. I'm gonna try the low-res gfx, but i doubt that that will help since the troubles are mainly in production windows. Kraut ps. BTW, did i mention i have over 500mb free on my HD and 96MB of edo ram? Not the best processor though ... ppro200 ...
Gergi	posted 02-11-99 06:07 PM ET I have a 133MhZ with 48MB Edo Ram and a 6MB video card. while the game doesn't run exactly what I would call fast, it's still not nearly as slow as many of you are talking about. I think, like some of the others are saying, maybe you have too many other open things open at once, especially in your system tray. It would be nice if the game ran a little smoother/faster, though. I'm using demo 1.1.
UndertakerAPB	posted 02-11-99 07:40 PM ET All I can say about this topic is demo 1.1 moves a lot faster than the game itself.And I also compared the add-on graphics that firaxis did for 1.1 and it seems to my eyes that it looks better than the orginal game.If u guys noticed just a slight difference in the demo than the game please reply because I certainly feel the difference in speed.....
Tykyn	posted 02-12-99 06:22 PM ET Think I have some legitimate gripes. Think they could more properly be called glaring omissions. 1. Why can't we choose color of the faction? 2. Why no adjustable default builds? 3. Can't seem to change support for a unit without putting it on hold first. 4. These pods are stuff we brought with us to help us. So why are so many of them negative? Good game just wondering.
Spoe	posted 02-12-99 06:25 PM ET 3. Can't seem to change support for a unit without putting it on hold first. CTRL-H, IIRC. 4. These pods are stuff we brought with us to help us. So why are so many of them negative? Play balance? Think of it as the pod broke open upon landing and had nasty side effects on the surrounding areas.
PrinceBimz	posted 02-12-99 07:13 PM ET None of those sluggish problems here. I have a Compaq 233mmx,64megs, 2mb video with Monster3D(which i don't think SMAC is using). Maybe alot of it has to do with system configuration or HD controllers. SMAC as well as just about every other TBS game does not require a mega system to run. Don't know why you guys with the P2's are have speed problems with a TBS game. Check the DX6 drivers, that could have ALOT to do about it. Go to DX diagnostics and perform the tests on video and sound mainly to see if it passes them, if not, I would almost bet that that could be the problem.