posted 07-03-99 12:54 AM ET        

It seems that our expressive friend, Trippin Daily, has lost the right to use his well known ID. If this is true, I have to ask the Moderators... why? Too much profanity? Or simply too much profanity in just a couple of posts? Too many personal attacks?

Trippin Daily may be blocked, but the PERSON that is behind the ID isn't. TD is back. If you bounce his new ID, he'll just be back under a new ID. Repeat cycle. Even if you add a special exception list for his EMail address, he can always pick up more. So this seems to be an exercise in futility.

Tripping Daily is quite intelligent. And respected by many here, even IF he can be offensive to some taste. If you have a problem with him, its best to explain how he was over the line. Then he'll either stop being such a bad boy... or he won't. His choice. But it might save some time and aggravation on others parts.

posted 07-03-99 01:50 AM ET         

Darkstar is right, IP address can be changed, so can email addresses. It isn't hard. Unless you want to block every aol account, go ahead, then there is hotmail, juno, yahoo, and what not. I stay on these forums because I was ripped off, we all were. We bought a Civ 2 add on for 50 bucks.. that is all this game is. A civ 2 add on.. The ONLY way Firaxis will gain any respect by a growing number of people in here is to make Civ 3 the best damn game ever. And not just another Civ 2 clone. It would also be nice for them release patch 4. It took me getting banned for them to ever give us a real update. Something they promised to give us every couple of weeks. But we only get it when we speak up in huge numbers or one of us goes above and beyond the call of duty to bring light to it. That person also gets banned in the process.

Old Warrior, yes, my method may have been rather rude, but his veiled flame was rude as well. I was just more obvious with it. O warrior, I now play civ 2. I have no urge to go back to smac unless it is cleaned up extensively, but unfortunately, i know that is not going to happen. I have some hope that the add on will correct glaring flaws, but I seriously doubt it will. If it does fix this game up, I will happily by the add on, if it doesn't, I'll just get it warezed. For I'm not going to pay for garbage. So firaxis, please make SmacX complete.. make it turn Smac into a revolutionary game, not just slighty evolutionary.

I do not apologize for my language in the previous post. If I was treated fairly, and everybody else who violated your contract Firaxis was booted, then I would apologize, but until then... no apologies here.

posted 07-03-99 02:05 AM ET            

I'd love to sit down with these people (F. programmers, run through the different design flaws (my current fav being the four unlabeled pushbuttons in one of the SE menu items), and ask them - how the heck do you call that a finished, QA'd product, golly gee whiz shucks?

posted 07-03-99 02:14 AM ET            

jkm

firaxis games

posted 07-03-99 02:15 AM ET            

Jeff, I do have to wonder what happens if people complain about you or Tim or Chris. There have been responses from each of you that weren't the most PC possible. But does that mean you guys could be booted by the moderator? This is an Origon/EA board... right?

MtG... If they were going to boot me, I have given them more than enough fuel. They haven't. So there is SOME sort of level you or I have yet to cross. Must be the sheer number of "****" (yes, the real astericks!) that do it... especially when added in with attacks and counter attacks on people. Humm... now what would it take to isolate it completely? Inquiring minds want to know!

Trip, you are too smart for them to keep out. And since you are forced to suffer on AOL, they will have to block a LOT of accounts. Have fun.

But I bet they popped the Wank... and Hardman. Yes Jeff? Do you know?

posted 07-03-99 02:20 AM ET            

Thanks for the reply Jeff. So, if MtG had mailed a COMPLAINT to you about the BJ pick that was posted, you'd have booted the poster?

And is it just the Bypassing? So if he hadn't freaked around with the - _ or $... he'd been ok? No? No, I bet. Its the COMPLAINT. That is the way I'd have done it, back when I sysop'd.

posted 07-03-99 02:38 AM ET            

I do think it seems extreme, but as of the time I right this, Jeff hasn't said that those OTHERS weren't kicked off as well. But would we CARE? Trippin is a friend of mine, here on the board. I'd have a harder time being offended if Wank or Hardman was banned. Mind you, I think I could muster some... I like to know the rules as they are enforced, and prefer to see equitable treatment for all.

posted 07-03-99 03:08 AM ET            

I think that JKM was well within his rights to ban Trip. This is not a public street corner. This is a wholly owned piece of cyber real-estate that was being abused by an individual. This individual was granted privileges, not rights, to use the forum, by the owners. If this individual decided to refuse to play by the very loose rules that the owners established then good riddance, I say.

Trip was given a warning in personal email. He in effect told JKM and Firaxis to shove off.

I am a very staunch defender of the First Amendment. I belong to the ACLU. However, this is private property, it is, in effect, being defaced and vandalized, and the owners have execised their rights. The only thing that is uncertain here is how effective this course of action, on Firaxis' part, wil be.

posted 07-03-99 03:32 AM ET            

It is impossible to enforce this policy "consistently". Else, all of us drones would be saying the same thing, the same way, in perfect harmony. Booooooring! And Firaxis knows it. That's why they allow as much as they do, to go on here. Trip generated a complaint, which is hard to do, around here! JKM emailed him to ask him to tone it down. Trip refused to.

This is cut and dry, as far as I'm concerned. See some of my other posts on related threads. Refresh the Game forum and see what bubbled to the top.

I'm sorry Trip. You posted some interesting stuff. If you could only learn the tiniest bit of discretion.

posted 07-03-99 03:34 AM ET            

A few things...

One... Trippin informs me that he is a member of the ACLU as well. He asks what does being a member of the ACLU have to do with condoning censorship?

Two... He was booted, then warned. That, I think, is the reason he bothered to keep signing back in and continuing to post. I would have a hard time being reasonable on the first couple of passes to something like that. This is a pre-emptive strike from his point of view. He has always been like that since day one on here.

Three... Their action is just wasting Jeff's time. And its his own personal time that should be spent on better things... Although it can be a bit of a stress relief to kick a wanker or as big a pain in the rump that Trip may be interpretted as. But, all that does is make Trip change screen names. Looking at his email address, its AOL. That's not a big deal, as I remember it. Their only hope is to contact AOL, and then he can pick up another carrier... whether free, AT&T, MSN... the list goes on. Heck, I have a friend that maintains 2 AoL charged accounts. One, his wife knows how to get in. The second is what he gets naughty pics dropped in. Doesn't like his wife to get worried. Shrug. Its incredibly easy to get around email address blocks.

Fourth... this is a PUBLIC forum. Even though its private equipment. Its not defacing or graffiti to post. To qualify for vandalism, you have to hack it. Or so goes the rules and laws on NASA's forums, as well as several contractors. Now, I bring this up as a point.. Its not that NASA is a public extension. That's not true for CSC's and Boeing's forums. That is that they allow anyone to register, making it a digital street corner. The ISP has a basic responsibility... but the filtering process would be it. If they take an active role... then ALL THREADS, ALL FORUMS, and ALL MESSAGES can be HELD AGAINST THEM. Its one or the other... or have they changed the law? You say you are ACLU... what is it?

Fifth... What has people's gander up isn't the banning for profanity. As Old Warrior says... we have all done it to some extent. Well, Many of us have. Several have gotten to the same personally crafted flaming. So, at heart, its what we view as an inconsistancy. That, and its Trippin. (Once again) He's been like that since day one.

posted 07-03-99 04:16 AM ET            

I disagree with the ACLU, on occasion. I belong to the NRA, as well. I also disagree with some of their positions. The ACLU has a well deserved reputation for fighting for the First Amendment rights of people. I respect them to the depths of my soul for this tireless fight. Sometimes, like the recent case here in Silicon Valley, where they were assisting some bozo who kept sending emails to Intel employees badmouthing Intel, I part ways with them. For the very reasons that I have listed in this and other threads.

This forum is "offered" for the public's use, by a corporation that expects certain VERY loose rules to be followed. They don't sit and lord over this forum, closing threads, indiscriminately banning people, censoring, et cetera. They basically ignore it, unless it is shoved in their faces. You, of all people should agree with me there. You and I have gone down that road before.

Trippin got carried away, one too many times. Someone with thin skin complained. Firaxis banned him. At this point, I'm not sure whether they banned first, then offered appeal or the other way around. Either way, he could have just knuckled under and laid low for a few days until it all blew over. Instead, he goes ballistic on JKM and starts posting crap all over the forum. That was not the smart thing to do. Now, he's paying the price, for his error.

You may be right about the ease of getting around email blocks. Firaxis can play its game of whack-a-mole with trippin and eventually, either he or they will tire of it. Or, he will find some other interest and move on. Or, he will grow up and learn some tact and discretion, plead his case and be the better for the whole experience.

Firaxis doesn't need to worry about the law holding them liable for the tripe that's posted here. Otherwise my borderline porn stuff would get me booted! What they are trying to protect is a semblence of civility in the postings and counterpostings in the forums. Why? Because they still want to sell SMAC. Because new people visit these forums and disgusted with the crap flying about, leave. Why ask questions about "The Game" when you're gonna get some kid flaming your butt off? The kid may think he's being funny and the old-timers may say "Well, looks like trippin couldn't get his good meds, again." But the person coming here looking to see if the game is worthwhile and the forum community helpful and courteous, is just going to give up. Firaxis is protecting themselves that way. By trying to promote a useful added feature (the forums) and not some free for all for people who can't make friends in the real world, they sell more games.

posted 07-03-99 04:34 AM ET            

Why don't you educate me to the facts? I've also been grown-up to admit that I was wrong, publicly. I'm not as good at it as OW, but then he's had more practice then me.

Trippin, use my email address. It's in my profile. Send me the transcripts of your's and JKM's conversations. If I think you were wronged, I'll post to that effect. If I think that you were being unreasonable, I'll email you back. If you don't care for my support, you shouldn't care about my criticisms, either.

If you'd rather, we could discuss it in the ACOL chat room. I'll probably be up for a little while longer. But since I'm getting old, I need some beauty sleep.

I'd prefer it though, if you wouldn't use my name in your new user names. I'm sure that you can come up with others, if you think about it. And, thinking about what you have done is the first step of learning what you should have done and how to do it better in the future.

posted 07-03-99 04:55 AM ET            

Tripp sent me a copy of the email from JKM - in my view, it was curt, sarcastic, and Tripp was banned first, and told he could appeal - Tripp's story is straight, and JAM's assumption that there was any kind of warning or discussion first was wrong.

JKM's email also made mention of Tripp's evident dislike of SMAC - so something stinks - ooooh, can I say "doo-doo" or "number 2" if I'm critical of Firaxis?

To my knowledge in reading as many of Tripp's posts as I've been able to find (he's had me on the floor laughing 'til I cried more than once - even when I disagreed with him) Tripp has never personally attacked JKM, but has made pointed comments about design and quality issues that point at JKM professionally.

I did complain about Rimmer - but made it very clear that I DID NOT want to see him banned, but just to drop the "spraying the urine" tag line. I received a response twice from Stephen Lee - not from JKM.

This is not a Firaxis owned or operated board, as most everyone knows and has been pointed out numerous times. If Stephen Lee repsonds to my complaint, and Dan Magaha is the Firaxis webmaster, and Origin/EA owns and runs this site, doesn't it occur to anyone that it's a little funny that JKM personally asserted himself into the issue, and personally caused Trippin to be banned?
Especially when his function is programming and QA, the two huge weaknesses of SMAC?

It's even more funny that JKM was clearly piqued and made reference to Tripp's apparent dislike of the game. The anonymous "complaints" were almost a side note.

IMO, JKM and Firaxis were simply tired of Tripp's vocally taking issue with the poor programming quality, and they used Tripp's profanity as an excuse. They have the power to do that (although it's a waste of effort), and they have the technical "right" to do that, but it is dishonest to deny that there were other motivations than an unstated number of anonymous complaints.

posted 07-03-99 04:57 AM ET            

You are correct about conversations. We have been over much of this ground... however, this *is* a public place. The public is allowed in, and therefore the providers and those that use it have certain responsibilities. Or so says the current laws. Only if they DON'T in any way tamper with the boards and messages, will they be excused for allowing people to post nasty messages and Porn! That is it. Its a boolean thing, legally speaking. They might change that law, but that is how it stands.
So by only taking action against Trippin and Chris, they don't have a leg to stand on. Anyone want to go post the latest Hustler in the Off Topic and get this place shut down? Or a little from any of the truly NASTY Usenet groups? That's the only way you can provide Usenet to many people in several states... by not looking at what you pass as a provider. Otherwise, its your company's butt. No kidding.

Trip did indeed get carried away. But he has been doing that since he first "posted". Why now? Why not before? That is one of the problems here. What if you suddenly got banned, or Brother Greg? You two have been here a while... people would take notice. Now, neither of you two have used as many *-*-*-* words, but... you both have been "Harassing" at SOME time, for instance. Jeff has broken the WORD of the agreement. It happens. Someone is going to take what you say wrong. The problem with speaking in public... and in most ways, that is what this is. Only its also COPYRIGHTED to the author. So added protections... but I side track.

But Trip WAS bounced first. Jeff hasn't said any different. In fact, Jeff said he bounced Trip, and then gave him an appeal. Getting bounced and then emailed is likely to provoke hot and even mild tempered people. Maybe not the best order? Maybe it is... Any other moderators around from other boards? MarkG?

posted 07-03-99 06:10 AM ET            

In the interest of fair play, which many don't believe exists in SMAC , Jeff checks the forums on his OWN time on the weekends. He probably got emailed PERSONALLY by whoever it was that complained. He looked into it and handled it. You would have done it different when on the BBS's... I'd have done it different on the BBS's... but I'd have cleaned or wiped out the offending thread back then too. And it was a different time then. Right?

However, Trip not being best buds with Jeff may have affected the ease for him to shut down the ID. But, as far as we know, Jeff fell out of his chair a lot reading Trip's stuff. Just like the rest of us. Nothing said one way or the other.

posted 07-03-99 08:12 AM ET            

I guess I should thank Wank (hey I rhyme) for defending me, even if it wasn't necessary. I guess I should spank Wank (hey I rhyme) for making it much worse than it could have been. I guess I should also thank Wank for not throwing any more dynamite in after the initial blasts.

posted 07-03-99 08:16 AM ET            

And to the so-much-righteous-minded JAM (whom I realised just took over the paladin tag over from MichaeltheGreat recently ), I hope that you are not saying things based on the rules of this forum over at the registration. What they say, that might not be the law. In Singapore, when you want to do some public speech - you would have to apply for 1 to 2 permits depending on the content. This caused the monopolistic political situation over in the country now. I can't freely talk about what I believe in, there's no free speech, and that's why I hate this bloody damned country. Even in this kind of a society, certain rules are just not meant to be under constituiton rights:
Let me quote - the receipt that we get from shopping would tell "Goods sold are not refundable". Anybody not knowing the law, or should I say the shopkeepers themselves, would follow that. The truth is that Sale of Goods Act would invalidate that sentence to sales to private individuals, as it only applies to companies' sales. That means I can return the goods even if I didn't bother to check for any defects in the first place. I hope this is clear.

I quote you "It is impossible to enforce this policy "consistently". Else, all of us drones would be saying the same thing, the same way, in perfect harmony. Booooooring!"

You are right. I dun talk to Trippin Daily, but from the threads I could see he is one big bad ass who spice things up with his ever crude and entertaining manner - that's what make some of us continue to stay on this forum and waiting for that ever patch 4 to arrive from Firaxchiron headquarters.

posted 07-03-99 08:31 AM ET            

I've witnessed a double standard going at another forum. A battle revolving around, among others things, censorship broke out after a banning of someone. The moderator allowed who he agreed with more 'air time' than the disagreers. They said more w/o a warning. What resulted was a break. A whole group of people defected to another forum (citing more freedom).

posted 07-03-99 09:21 AM ET            

Unfortunately this has all blown up just as I have to leave for Bristol, but I wanted to make a few quick points. I could (and would like to) comment at length but haven't the time right now So here's the pr�cis version:

1. There is no point banning IDs from forums or chat rooms. Everyone on the entire Net knows that. Another ID will be created. The only way to sort out complaints is to actually talk to the person(s) involved, but that involves too much work, I guess?

2. Trippin did/does swear quite a lot. However, so do many others, and they have not been banned. Swearing on Internet BBSs is such old news that it amazes me that anyone cares about it any more. But if they do care, then "ban one, ban all" must be the logical policy to follow.

3. Technically speaking, with my "sysop" head on, I can see *why* the TD account was banned. However, this is just a knee-jerk "quick fix" response, so that the sysop can be "seen" to be doing something. I should imagine that, seeing how little attention is paid to this forum by any kind of moderator, someone must have directly complained by email. With my *own* head on, I would have held back and tried to investigate what was going on, and talk to the people involved, before considering banning anyone's ID.

4. It seems odd that forum members are not allowed to swear *within* a message, but that it's allowable to create IDs which are themselves profane, e.g. "Wank". This is illogical and speaks of lack of attention.

5. There are worse things in this world, and on this forum, than profanity. I have seen racism, sexism, homophobia and many other kinds of viciousness in posts here, and nothing is done about that. To me, these are more serious problems than the odd **** (my own stars).

6. I have, on one or two occasions, used **** to represent four-letter words. This is done to be humourous, but surely the net effect is the same? Everyone knows what the missing word really is. Therefore, is this any more acceptable than typing the words themselves?

7. If one person is to be banned for profanity, then so should all other offenders be. However, an initial warning by email (or preferably on the board itself, in the form of a reply to the offending message) should be the policy, not an instant ban. But, again, that would mean the moderator, if there is one, paying attention to the content of forum posts, so it's unlikely to happen.

8. Free speech is the cornerstone of democracy. Unlike Laurens, I am lucky enough to live in a country where you can say anything you like, short of libel or slander, for which I am grateful. Never a truer word was spoken than: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance". Once censorship begins, abuses of rights soon follow. Another one springs to mind: "When men burn books, they will soon burn men."

Anyway, I really have to cut this short. Wish I could write more.

posted 07-03-99 09:28 AM ET            

I can say, though, that things in this forum do have a way of fixing themselves in the end. Well, maybe Tripin's language won't , but the greatest blow to tennis was always when John McEnroe quit playing, it was a day when I and many realized, not how much we hated him for swearing and winning a few against Borg, but how dull tennis was gonna be in the future.

A note: Yin26 disagreed once with Jeffrey Morris, without foul language I think, and Jeff threatened to ban him.

It appears to me that Jeff took a chance to get rid of a vocal critic, plain and simple. He probably even lied to himself and believed it, when he said it was because of foul language.

Many feel you should have given him a warning first, Jeff, not just banned him right away. But that is fixable. Give Trippin another chance, just one, and we'll forgive you guys.

posted 07-03-99 11:26 AM ET            

I never said he should be banned - I said he was wasting his life coming here.

I didnt say he shouldnt post here - I said he should find better ways to spend his life.

now he wants to spend time creating new nicks so he can get in here again? My advise to him is to spend $40 and buy a new puter game.

posted 07-03-99 11:47 AM ET            

Darkstar - will you complain about me, and I'll complain about you?

I have to say I disagree with you, Darkstar, old buddy - if someone emailed JKM, and he chose to do something, he should have either turned it over to someone with less personal animosity, OR wrote to Trippin first and talked to him, OR banned both Trippin and Wank since it was the same thread, and put up a topic saying what the new enforcement policy was, AND scrubbed the offending posts.

JKM's banning email to Trippin, which I've read - is sarcastic (in my words) and condescending (in OW 42's words). Trippin's response was very reasonable and fair, and he's going to wait and give JKM a chance to reply to him. I think once people know the whole story, they'll see it in a different light.

Tripp was on for months, and hasn't changed a bit - so why the ban now? Because JKM personally wanted an excuse to stick it (can I say that??? Someone please explain the new rules.) to Trippin.

My understanding is that these are ALL unmoderated forums, so conduct that's bannable here should be banned in off topic as well. But the bj pic was up for weeks AFTER someone complained about Xenoman - and is technically still up AFAIK, except for the self appointed censor DanS HTML fun and games to kill the topic.

I think JKM SHOULD answer, Darkstar - he's a Vice President of Firaxis, with responsibility for programming and QA - the two areas that Trippin most vocally criticised. If there's now a pseudo-moderator, then there should be some explanation, or some consistency,

*** OR JKM should be man enough*** to say that he lost his cool, and reacted to Trippin differently than to other profane posters becasue of Trippin's criticisms. Firaxian's read these posts, and if you see **** you, you ****ing **** - it doesn't take a complaint to knw that some thin skinned viewers might take offense, or that there's some technical violations of the rules.

posted 07-03-99 12:14 PM ET            

This is not about forum rights but our right to free speech (I feel sorry if your not american and don't get a chance at that.) Everyday we are losing our freedon due to idiots and bitches like Tipper Gore. If it weren't for Larry Flynt and other people who wish to have a freedom to express our REAL opinions, we would have already been controlled completely by our liberal government.

And the government is being controlled by special interests and evil, faceless conglomorates.Through this the government is alienating the ppl and helping the oligarchy.

You should never cede your right to even express unpopular ideas to ANYONE. That means you should also use "obscene" words to get your points across.

Now that was my mindless spiel.I hope someone can actually understand it.

"America, by the people, AGAINST the people"

posted 07-03-99 12:34 PM ET            

Banning someone guy for cussing ? Excuse me ?

Please, someone name *one* person on this forum that has *never* used *any* questionable word (translated into *'s or not)

Get real. Jeff, if you banned Trip' for that reason, then you might as well be consistent and ban us all. Then you wouldn't have any more Firaxis-bashing.

And if the true reason for the ban *was* the Firaxis bashing, then be a man and face it. There is no smoke without fire, and so learn from the mistake and do better next time (Civ3 ?)

posted 07-03-99 01:35 PM ET            

The following is a letter that I sent to one of the forum regulars who, for privacy concerns, will remain nameless. I only post it here, because I'm too lazy to rewrite it and it explains a lot. I hope. Also, it should be noted in advance that it contains references to conversations, held in confidence, between Trippin and myself and Trippin and JKM. Therefore, since I do not want to violate those confidences, I am necessarily oblique and vague, at points.

"Trippin and I made peace last night. We chatted on AOL Instant Messenger. Feel free to disagree with me and defend Trippin publicly and I will feel likewise to defend Firaxis behavior and policies.

Trippin sent me the text of both JKM's original letter informing him that he was banned and Trip's response to that letter. Trip was way out of bounds. I do admit to two things in Trips favor, though.

First, banning is a drastic measure and I do think that the "proper" way would have been to send a warning first. Then if the behavior was not modified or a response email like Trip's was returned, ban the offender, and possibly offer an appeal process depending on the specifics of the content and person(s) involved.

Secondly, JKM's original letter, while on the surface was polite, did contain some "baiting," that whether or not JKM intended it as such, was sure to elicit from Trippin one of his "typical" responses.

Obviously his "typical" response style is what got him into trouble in the first place. This was not the time and place for him to use the old 8 barreled flamer. He should have exercised tact and humility. Both are qualities that the long time users of this forum know that he possesses. And, us old timers know to take his flames with a grain (pound) of salt.

While I do not presume to speak for Trippin at this time, he does seem to realize that he got carried away, in the heat of the moment. That is the Trip that we all know and expect. However, it was not Trip at his best, and most lucid.

During our chat last night, I offered to send forth any comments or statements that he may wish to disseminate to the forum, verbatim. I did make a minor condition that they not be attack pieces or trash. I do not feel that these conditions constitute censorship, only the restraining hand and cool voice of a friend who wishes to keep his friend from walking off a cliff. If he wants to send attack pieces, then I am sure, he can talk others into doing it for him. That would be his decision and theirs.

I can only hope that cooler heads prevail."

I know that many of you disagree with me on the "ownership" and posting privileges (rights) that you maintain on these forums. That is fine. We can, hopefully, agree to disagree. I still maintain that in spite of the ultimate effectiveness, or intent, of Firaxis' actions, they were well within their rights.

Flame on!

posted 07-03-99 01:48 PM ET            

I am a paladin now? That's funny! At least I'm not "The Master of Forum Disguise" anymore.

I am only defending Firaxis' rights, here. Not necessarily, their actions. I don't think that it was handled optimally by them, either. I also, would like to see Trippin come back. He has character like no other, and all of our lives would be a little more empty without him here, warming the place up with his trusty flamethrower. Hopefully, he'll be able to talk JKM into reinstating his posting privileges and, in the meantime, learn to aim that thing a little better.

posted 07-04-99 01:06 AM ET            

I do not know.

I do understand that the frustration of playing a "near masterpiece" is the core cause of a great deal of the dissatisfaction expressed by many posters here.

I also understand that Firaxis is in no position to admit any shortcoming.

So, where does that leave us? Are we going to snip back and forth like kiddies?

Now that I have read the post on what is in the fourth patch, I would like to know what will be in the fifth. Firaxis, are you going to finish the game?

posted 07-04-99 05:07 PM ET            

my guess is that the ACLU is anti-government and anti-rules.

That is why they end up defending the KKK and Nazis rights to have demonstrations, etc...

posted 07-04-99 09:36 PM ET            

I go away for a couple of days and what happens? I can't even leave you to play nicely together.

Get real. Frankly, I don't care if you swear at eachother or engage in sexual acts illegal in your local jurastiction. And if it's swearing you object to, I'm guilty of that more than most of you in my REAL life.

Is this such a matter of free speech? Hey, I can go and shout at people on my street corner? So what's the big the conspiracy? This is a small virtual part of a large real world.

What happens next, I hear? Eventually there'll be a list with a line under your name. Yeah, maybe true, but frankly I wouldn't waste the ink because you guys are saying nothing that destabilises even the cats piss end of society or even jumps the lunch break queue. Don't kid yourselves or pretend that there's some high principle involved - it doesn't seem that way to me.

posted 07-04-99 09:42 PM ET            

Now, to take of some other business:
a) Why is my name offensive? It was taken from a band. I mean, christ, if Walmart can put their CD on the shelves next door to the toy dept then what's the big deal?

b) Ehehe..I actually didn't swear in that first port I wrote TD, at least not technically, I put all those '*'s in manually =P

c) This whole thread relating me to TD is seriously starting to piss me off. I stepped in because personally, I can't stand it when someone makes a personal attack on another person. Bash the game, fine, go ahead no one gives a crap. But if someone is giving his honest opinion that he likes the game, leave him alone. To do otherwise is f'ed up and immature.

Wank

Yes, 'Wank', like the band. If you interpret it otherwise, now who has a sick mind??

posted 07-04-99 09:44 PM ET            

Now, to take of some other business:
a) Why is my name offensive? It was taken from a band. I mean, christ, if Walmart can put their CD on the shelves next door to the toy dept then what's the big deal?

b) Ehehe..I actually didn't swear in that first port I wrote TD, at least not technically, I put all those '*'s in manually =P

c) This whole thread relating me to TD is seriously starting to piss me off. I stepped in because personally, I can't stand it when someone makes a personal attack on another person. Bash the game, fine, go ahead no one gives a crap. But if someone is giving his honest opinion that he likes the game, leave him alone. To do otherwise is f'ed up and immature.

Wank

Yes, 'Wank', like the band. If you interpret it otherwise, now who has a sick mind??

posted 07-04-99 10:00 PM ET            

First JKM had a go at Yin, after an email exchange and some fired up posting on the forums. Fortunately, everyone saw sense.

I haven't seen the thread which got trip banned. But I am concerned about a few things:

* It seems trip received NO warning at all about his behaviour being unacceptable. JKM's comments about the forum rules do not justify this, as QUITE A LOT of bad lanuage gets used regularly here, without anyone EVER being warned to stop.

In effect, he was punished for pushing the limits of common forum behaviour.

* Trip's ban was the result of a complaint. Any source to this complaint? Or is an anonymous email enough to hang anyone?

If so, someone should definitely complain about Wank. His handle, first, and his behaviour too.

* So far, it seems this is an open ended ban. I.e trip will NEVER get his handle back. I don't know of anywhere else that this is done, certainly not under a no warning policy.

A better method might be to ban trip's handle for a month or so, with a warning about the future.

posted 07-05-99 12:08 AM ET            

See dude. It doesn't matter if you skip it, *-*-*-* it, or just push it. It's unwise. And liable to be offensive. Frankly, if you worship the band Wank that much, go use the ID on a Wank-based forum, or keep you fingers away from the keyboard about it here. I'm still ticked at you, so you start whining about immature behaviour, or anything but perfect etiquette, and I'll fry you now and then. People DO care about SMAC. Some for good and some not. And considering that if you state "SMAC has bugs in it" you will often as not get flamed by a dozen people stating "no way" and "you're are just a gay/lezbo protoplasm leaking from a [pick animal] [pick body opening] like sap from dieing split tree. Go away."

As far as I am concerned, if Trip can't be here, NEITHER SHOULD YOU. You were both insulting and letting profanity fly. Fair is fair, and THAT is one of the reasons we are ticked.

posted 07-05-99 03:24 AM ET            

I think. They are an interesting group whose goal is to protect the common citizen of the USoA's rights and privaleges. Among other things. So they are often active in freedom of speech or press issues, for instance.

posted 07-05-99 03:45 AM ET            

You are starting the month of July with a bang!

Not only have you been right a few times, but we are actually agreeing on a few things! Hmmmmmn, now is that coincidence or a necessary condition?

But seriously, apparently Wank DOESN'T have a clue as to the slang meaning of "wank" in the rest of the English-speaking world. After all, he's from Los Altos, a snotty, snobby little burb here in Sillycon Valley. He lives about 10 miles from me, so I'm very familiar with the utterly naivety of many of its inhabitants when it comes to anything but consuming resources and spending exhorbitant amounts of mommy and daddy's money. So, cut him some slack.

Wank,

Go to the public library, reference section, and ask to look at the Oxford English Dictionary. Look up your nom-de-plume and then see what the fuss is about. The band didn't just monkey-pound on a keyboard randomly, to get the name. They chose it for all of its offensive potential.

JAMiAM

posted 07-05-99 03:56 AM ET            

Jam and I agree? Is Mercury retrograde?

Wank has stated in the lost thread (IIRC) that he KNOWS that his handle involves auto-erotica, but he doesn't care as he took his name from the band that is named after auto-erotica. So, he KNOWS he's volunteering to the world that his favorite band is the guys that like to pull their pud, with the implicit knowledge that reflects the same on him. Hey, an older friend that I used to work with's favorite saying was that "No body does me the way I do me." Must be a Wank song... how's the rest of that go, Wank?

posted 07-05-99 04:40 AM ET            

"Truly, your intellect is dizzying." - Wesley to Fezzini, in "The Princess Bride"

"Wait til I get going!!!" - Fezzini

posted 07-05-99 09:44 AM ET            

but they are so extreme on defending individual rights that -

they defend nazis and KKK right to make demonstrations - oh and dont forget the cases where they defend the right of homeless ppl who stink to sit in a public library (apparently the guy smelled awful...)

posted 07-05-99 10:16 AM ET         

I do not consider Jeffs banning of Trippin D. as a wise act, although I can understand him. I do not like TD's (and some others) kind of wrinting either.
But Jeff should have known, that any force provokes an at least equal counterforce. What some one is fighting against, grews even bigger and bigger and much more powerful.

I personally never cared about postings with sh** and porn in it. For lack of time and interest, I concentrated on the most smac-related posts. �Smac is dead�-postings or even postings with nonsense or unclear headlines never attracted me for a second.

But now, I had to read this upgly and ****** stuff to know about what crazy things are going on in this forum. The whole subject got may be 50 times more posts since the banning, and draws much much more attention to it. People even forget to play and forget to have fun.

So I plea to allow TD to come back, not to uplift his importance any longer in making him a martyr.

posted 07-05-99 02:14 PM ET            

To me this is a clear case of tyrrany by the minority. Most people tend to put nasty names to these types of behavior like terrorism, despotism, fascism, yadayadayada. Behavior like that is much more unacceptable to me than abusive language.

I think its safe to say from the posts here that the majority of us take no offense to his posts. He's either making jokes or intelligent posts, most of the time. Even when he's got the flamethrower wide open, he does it with a sense of humor. Anyone that doesn't like what he has to say is free to post about it on the forum. Its incredible to me that a complaint can get someone banned from this forum without notice.

The fact that this has happened to trip over the weekend that those of us in the States celebrate our Independence Day is supremely ironic.

Welcome to the gulag, trip. Feel free to flame me anytime you like, using whatever language you feel is appropriate, I might even enjoy it.

censorship bites,
sandworm

posted 07-05-99 03:43 PM ET            

DS: Er...actually the only song I know by Wank is 'Forgiven'. =D

Wank

OOh, FAGsti...er...I mean JAMstillAM, (oops), I just looked wank up in both the merriam-webster and oxford dictionaries out of curiosity, they ain't in there. =)

posted 07-05-99 07:30 PM ET            

"most" does not equal "all"

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, in that you were simply naive and not being a jerk. Thank you, for setting me straight on my error.

posted 07-05-99 09:01 PM ET         

I'm with you. If he wants, let Trip back, whether or not he signs a promise to behave.

And let's see the off-topic stuff and their inevitable Trip flames go to Off Topic, and leave the Game and the Tactics to those that want to discuss the game and its Tactics.

Sure there are a bunch of jaded SMACers there who want us to read their stuff (the Newbie Terrorists and the Newbie vs Vets threads) - they've even admitted they post under The Game because it has a wider audience - and the 600 threads about Trip's banning, and the censorship ad nauseum.

Why should those of us who come to The Game Forum have to wade through countless irrelevant posts that belong off topic to finally get to something about the game?

So, Moderator, reinstate Trip then close these 600 boring repetitive threads (or move them all of topic) and let's get back to the purpose of this "The Game" forum and get on with swapping thoughts about SMAC.

Why am I writing this? Why do I care? Because this Forum has been hijacked by a group who see a conspiracy in Jeff's revoking Trip's rights - a step many of us said "Thank You" under our breath to.

I didn't know you could complain about someone's language. If I had known, I would have.

posted 07-05-99 09:38 PM ET            

For instance, mail a complaint to JM about the story threads and their associated comments threads cloggin up this forum. Tell him to shift the thread or delete it, but it doesn't belong.

Maybe he will listen. Who knows?

posted 07-05-99 10:03 PM ET            

You don't "own" this forum any more than any other user, and it's no more your place to tell me where to post than it is my place to tell you where to post, or what you can say.

When someone creates a topic asking a game related question, it seems to get answered responsively, or maybe my eyesight and visual cortex have been hijacked as well.

As far as strategies and tactics, and support and troubleshooting, a SMAC related issues forum is being created at that cesspool of obscenity at ACOL. I don't see this mysterious hijacking in those forums here at all, and I post in them as well, as do many of the other "hijackers."

ACOL is purely a superior site, and has a superior knowledgebase of players and CMN's for multiplayer games.

If you don't want to bother checking it out and being informed, that your prerogative, but don't insult the rest of us without cause.

And as far as us being "jaded SMACers" some of us are, but I'm in 50 PBEMS as a player, the majority of which I also run under a modification of CMN duties, and I also CMN for games I don't play in, as well as design scenarios, as does tfs99 and many others who don't like what JKM did here, and don't like the poor performance of this site.

posted 07-05-99 10:23 PM ET         

Thanks

I did come across strong, didn't I (on rereading my posts - where's the edit feature?)

But I did start visiting this site last year, when the beta testers were posting and the Pre-Unity & Beyond tales were spinning, then got enthralled when the old timers spouted their wisdom and shared tactics.

Then the forums crashed (and luckily I had printed out about 1000 pages of the original threads), and I've participated at times - though mainly in the fiction side.

This past couple of weeks though I've seen a degrading of the forums (IMO) with scads of irrelevant and obnoxious stuff. I sat in the weeds and today just had to give my 2 cents' worth.

Misdirected - probably
Misplaced and misinformed - definitely
Sincerely believing that the Forum could be restored to its old glory - absolutely

But maybe hopeless here.

ACOL might be the answer, so I've crossed over.

Thanks for the welcome

Googlie