posted 07-02-99 06:17 AM ET        

to summarize main points -
1) no swapping to get a base
2) no renouncing a pact during sunspots
3) no using the scenario editor
4) no use of bugs - multiple SE changes, multiple drops, terraforming trick (you know a bug when you see it )

I think the contest will be better under the above rules.

However - I will divide the ever popular lal_2286 into 3 groups :
1) No Rules - renounce allowed
2) No renounce - base swapping allowed
3) No renounce

That should handle all the current entries.
Actually I think version 1 - might be the most interesting...

Please let me know into which category your entry falls.

Other Items:
Everyone who has submitted a solution should have received access to the solutions by now.

The URL probably wont be updated till Friday (I hope) but I had to announce these changes first since some ppl are itching to play this weekend - but want to know the rules

posted 07-02-99 06:22 AM ET            

when submitting a Scenario (not solutions) for the contest - please include rules - if the above normal ones need to be modified.

posted 07-02-99 09:48 AM ET         

I�m still confused about rules.
What is the exact meaning of:

No base trading with the AI at any time (according to MP or CMN rules B3a> ) ?

Ace, your statement in the posting above sounds different to me:

No _swapping _t o _g e t _a _base.

Does this mean, to give a base away for any reason (like to make neighbours friendly) is ok then?? (Communications-window: �Are you willing to accept a gift from me� � and � �I want to leave you one of my bases�, or something like that.)

As far as I understood you, Michael, you have a different opinion about this topic.

Can anyone please explain this topic in l o n g version, so that also non-english-native-speakers cannot misunderstand? Thanks.

It should be cleared, before people start the weekend.

Is it just me who has difficulties with exact meaning of words and rules?? (If yes, then I apologize to have bothered you. If not, ok then ...).

ARES 7
.

posted 07-02-99 10:37 AM ET            

I think for base-swapping, they will just be limiting this part during diplomacy:

"You have to cede control over one of your bases... And I will turn over one of my bases to you" - you can't do this trade.

posted 07-02-99 11:30 AM ET         

you wanted to know, how we played the Lal_2286:

In my game with score 1564, I gave 3 little bases to gajans for free (in year 2300) to have less pop, but more trade.

If this does not count as �base swapping�, the score can be listed in any of the three categories. Take the one with the most interesting competition.

If it is counted as base swapping, take 1) or 2). May be I will redo the last turn then (without gifting bases). But it will not change much.

posted 07-02-99 04:44 PM ET            

trying to keep it simple -
Because the tie-breaker is AC points that includes population - we dont want ppl swapping for bases at the end just to improve the score. So the rule is you cant ask the AI to cede a base. I doubt he will offer you one voluntarily - but if he does - you can take it...

At the end of the game - making a lot of changes just to improve the score will be frowned on - but not banned - I dont want to be a cop.
ARES 7 found that by turning specialists into drones at the end - you can up your score. We dont want a lot of senseless tweaking just to get a good score - that would be time consuming, not fun, and not really the point.
In this case its senseless because you are creating drone riots.

As for the renouncing under sunspots - plenty played the scenario and did not think of renouncing the pact. So it seems fair to not allow it. I think the problem is specific to that scenario.

To summarize:
1) No asking the AI to cede a base - since we count population in the score.
2) no renouncing during sunspots - but I think this will only effect lal_2286 - and I will create 3 categories for that scenario.
3) no senseless tweaking after you win to run up the score. But I cant really police this.

posted 07-02-99 04:46 PM ET            

Aceplayer is not really an ACEplayer. He admitted defeat,

I rest my case,

posted 07-03-99 03:49 PM ET            

1) no swapping to get a base
2) no using the scenario editor
3) no use of bugs - multiple SE changes, multiple drops, terraforming trick (you know a bug when you see it )

thats it

I am convinced that renouncing during sunspots is not a bug because you can renounce when they ignore your communications by the same method.

posted 07-03-99 04:16 PM ET            

I can often go from hostile to magnanimous (and get a pact) by giving the AI a size one base somewhere way across the world that is surrounded by an enemy of the new faction and about to be wiped out in one turn.

My understanding of the CMN rules is that *ANY* TRADING at all which results in giving a base to, or receiving a base from the AI is subject to the rules. This does not include blackmail - and it's not clarified exactly if a trade for a diplomatic result (I'll give you a city for peace) is allowed, since it's an issue.

It's an issue, not a cheat, so it's up to the CMN or in this case the scenario creator to set the exact version of what's allowed. I would say no base trades for any reason, including diplomacy, simply because the AI is so stupid with it, but blackmailing a base from another faction should be allowed - either to end a vendetta, or to not start one.

posted 07-05-99 01:01 PM ET            

please explain - you might have something really neat

posted 07-05-99 03:35 PM ET         

Ok, it worked. Instead of buying an SP, I build one SP more.

So I finished after one turn
with score 360.

Another top-score.
(Not to the ideal of MtG, who also wants to add the rule, that nobody is allowed to give bases away to get a pact in return (or a change from bad to best attidude. But according to aceplayers written rules, it is Ok).

Hi Ace,
you want to know, how it works to get a better trade with giving away bases.
It�s quite simple. And it�s the couterpart to conquering and thinking only for own advantage. This is a point I really like in smac. When so many people think, smac is for conquering and conqering gets always the highes reward, I can hold this against it:

Sometimes the more you give advantages to your pact-bros/sis, the more you get back, even with lower pop. So cooperative attitude works fine.

Lets say, in my scenario above, I build a sea-base (pop 1). Before I conquered the 2 spartan goal-bases, I gifted the sea-base to Lal (could be also Zak or M.). Lost 1 pop, received 3 trade with Lal. You see this additional trade in the given base itself and in the F8-screen of course (look at trade before and after gifting). I hoped to get a little more, but sometimes, 2 points make the difference between first and second place.

In Morgan_2281 the difference was much bigger (25 points with 4 bases gifted to Miriam). You only have to look out, that the receiving faction has less bases than you (mostly the smallest faction is the best to receive). Then, a base of yours without trade until now will have trade with this base you just gave away.
To be less creedy often pays out.

ARES 7

Sorry, I have to correct one point. Some days ago, I posted, that switching specialists to workers (who become drones mostly) will increase the score. That�s not true. I was mislead by the fact, that the trade in the base-screen was increasing while increasing the energy (with more workers out in the base-fields). I didn�t check the F8 screen enough. The score in the present year does NOT change with playing around in the SE-settings, psych-% and specialists or drones. This affects the score only in the next year!

posted 07-05-99 04:21 PM ET         

just had a look at your solution of Deirdre_2300 with 347-score. I�m curious about how you got the UN-Aid-Station (pop 3 with two SP�s) from your pact-brother ?

Most possibly you bought it from Lal like I bought an SP-base with cash from Lal in my first game with 355-score. Sorry, if I�m wrong with this, but if not, your score is not according to the rules any more.

Cheers
ARES 7

posted 07-05-99 06:06 PM ET            

you appear to be right about Laurens and UN Aid Station - I revised his score.

posted 07-05-99 10:43 PM ET            

I think I scared the wits out of Deirdre or Lal for UN Aid Station - theatened them otherwise I would break the pact. Please clarify would this be considered as base-swapping.

Sorry, really no breaking of rules intended here. Correct any scores if necessary.

posted 07-06-99 12:12 AM ET            

It was before we changed the rules - so it was acceptable at the time.

I think its the only way you could get the base and still have a pact - so I adjusted the score.

posted 07-06-99 11:51 AM ET         

now I finished the Zak_2171 scenario.

Got second place, but so far away from you. 12 years to your 5!
In pure conquering you are really great. Congrats!

posted 07-06-99 11:42 PM ET            

I'm sure you can beat that in time, juz a little planning to do.

I just realised that to win a fast planetary conquest, sometimes planning can take even a longer time than the builder
Just finished the lal_2286 scenario in a 2 hr game.

posted 07-07-99 08:46 AM ET         

I have got it in 5 turns (Zak_2171). Didn't waste the SP in Gajas Landing, so I got the score a little higher.

Never did atrocities before. What does the little red number in the base-screen mean? Years of economic blocking? How much longer can you do such nasty things, until everybody goes to war with you.

posted 07-07-99 08:59 AM ET            

I think the only two possibilities will be the actual economic sanctions (turns to go), or is the eco-damage you are referring to? It shows up in red, and especially when you commit lotsa atrocities and charter's not repealed, it really shoots up

I was playing the Dogpile scenario, and got the Believers to declare war on me when I committed over 8+ atrocities.

posted 07-07-99 10:15 AM ET         

still had V3 in Zak_2171. Economic sanctions I meant (not ec. blocking, that was literally translated back into english). In the end I had 416, you 955 (red number on the place, where trade is written normally). If this means years, its quite a lot. But who cares, if it is 50 or 1000?

It's easy for you to top my score, because I didn't even nervestaple (as I saw it in your save-file). So you got higher pop. And if one is lucky he can keep both SP's from Gajans.