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Author Topic:   does anyone use mag tubes?

aceplayer posted 06-16-99 05:20 PM ET
I dont use mag tubes. Semms like when I invade a place with mag tubes - I can conquer as many cities as I want on one turn.
Anyone use this to advantage?
btw - try my Scenario Site. You will love it!
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dome/3802/
Prove how good you really are !!
Krushala posted 06-16-99 06:04 PM ET
I use the enemies magtubes sometimes. But it seems the computer ai never builds very many even if they have the required tech. It's only till late game they might have all their cities connected. I loved using the enemies railroads against them in civ2 with howitzers. Oh how I miss them.
aceplayer posted 06-16-99 06:11 PM ET
of course I use the AI's mag tubes...
Seems like if the opp has mag tubes connecting cities, I can drop in and conquer all in one turn....
I dont build them myself...
umbra1 posted 06-16-99 06:18 PM ET
I try to link all my cities with mag tubes, it really helps in the late game "Mindworm Rush".
When you spot a fungal bloom somewhere on your empire, you can move in enough forces from any and all of your cites to flame them before they get to your bases.
cousLee posted 06-16-99 07:15 PM ET
Mag tubes are great for connecting your bases. The AI is just not smart enough to protect itself. Build bunkers on the magtube tiles between your bases. that will allow you the freedom of the movement bonus, but stop a base blitz. (IE any tile next to a base, that has a tube).
OldWarrior_42 posted 06-16-99 08:21 PM ET
The last game I played was the first builder game I have played and the mag tubes really helped with the defense of my cities because I didnt need that many units to defend and they were able to get everywhere right away. Needless to say in the future I will use them if my games last that long.
Koshko posted 06-16-99 09:05 PM ET
I build Mag Tubes up until I get Psi Gate. Then, I just build those. I usually end up with a small-scale Mag Tube network connecting my early built cities. The others stay a Magless frontier.
Aredhran posted 06-17-99 04:15 AM ET
I use them... if the game is not over by the time I discover monopole magnets
I think I *really* have to play a builder game one of these days. If only shiny would send me his SNAC mod...
Aredhran
Resource Consumer posted 06-17-99 04:29 AM ET
I never even build roads - why help the AI to probe you?
Aredhran posted 06-17-99 08:23 AM ET
Probes ? build sensors to detect them ahead of time, and send a unit to wipe them out, and keep probes garrisoned in your cities (they're free anyway). Better yet, build HSA...
Aredhran
Resource Consumer posted 06-17-99 08:42 AM ET
Yeah. Point taken. Unfortunately, I always seem to have trouble getting to the HSA before Zak and always seem to find more interesting things to do than to build sensors.
Still wouldn't build roads though
Darkstar posted 06-17-99 01:50 PM ET
Well, if I have the tech, I'll connect my cities. But Mag Tubes are WAY too far up the Tech tree for me to even THINK about using them in the near future.
now, having said that... Mag Tubes (and roads, to a lesser extent) are great for allowing you to deploy reserves to the points you need them... you should consider building them. Really helps when Planet takes a dislike to you to be able to move in reinforcements to your Planet Threatened bases.
As far as sensors go... generally, in my play style, every peaceful base gets (unit)recycle tanks, terraformer, (unit/pod), in that order. The first thing the Former does is move, drop a sensor, then a road, then a forest. I know the road is out of order, but its a Civ habit. I like a line to retreat my non-combatants on... If the tile is a flat arid one, road goes in first.
All of your bases should have at least ONE sensor. That Sensor bonus can make a LOT of difference between having to replace a unit, the base, or not. Its only a few turns out from terraforming the base lands anyways, and the benefits far exceed the delay. Especially if you like to make peace or pact with Lal... he loves those probes on your land...
-Darkstar
DilithiumDad posted 06-17-99 02:42 PM ET
The only time I use magtubes is when I have built a land bridge to an enemy with my formers --this leads to long supply lines and mag tubes along the main migration route to the land bridge can really help --even if it's just a few tiles. I never complete the network before the game ends, though.
Zach really likes mag tubes. he builds them more than other AI players.
ddayjoe44 posted 06-17-99 04:00 PM ET
Aceplayer - I tried to get to your "Dome" Scenario site, NO LUCK! ???? Try that link again!
Q Cubed posted 06-17-99 04:10 PM ET
I always build mag tubes, covering every city square within my empire with them.
i never worried about invasion (on Transcend, too) because of my isolationist tactics.
of course, i like the overpowered copters and drop/amphib rovers.
Nell_Smith posted 06-17-99 04:17 PM ET
I find that, by the time Monopole Magnets arrives, the game is all but over... although I often find that the AI factions (Yang's a prime culprit) have managed to absolutely plaster their terrain with mag tubes, despite only owning about two Formers. Nice work, Former driving guys!! hehe
Sensors, on the other hand, are absolutely vital in my opinion... once any essential forest/farm/solar work is done, my bases get at least one sensor each, and more as the game progresses, as the AI loves to take out sensor arrays before attacking... it makes their life harder if each base has two or three covering it. They take very little time to build and are well worth it, not only for the defensive bonus, but also to spot those pesky mindworms in time to attack them before they attack you... I often deploy one or two Rover Formers to do nothing but run around building sensors and/or roads, leaving the slower crawler Formers to get on with the boring agricultural work.
Resource Consumer: don't you find that, without roads, it's hassley moving troops to the front line when you go to war, and difficult to boost your SP production with supply crawlers? I don't usually start building a road network until around M.Y.2150, but then I get on with it pretty quickly, so that I can (if necessary) use my central, high-minerals bases as troop production factories and get those troops to the front line quickly. Without roads, those Infantry units really do creep along...
Aredhran: Yeah, a probe team in every base is essential... more than one, if you're anywhere near Miriam or Morgan, with their waves of annoying probes washing over your borders all the time! But, as you say (and I agree), with sensors you've got a much better chance of spotting probes on their way towards your bases, so you can attack/expel them before they get a chance to snaffle your data files
Nell... wondering why all her PBEMs have died
aceplayer posted 06-17-99 04:36 PM ET
sorry ddayjoe44 - geocities server must have been down when you tried it
Its working now - hey what do you expect for free space ???
Earwicker posted 06-18-99 11:20 AM ET
I'm with Nell on the sensors. More important than growth is the ability to survive long enough to grow. Once that former heads out of the base, a sensor comes up, then a road, then a forest. Knowledge is power and all that jazz.
And yes, the bummer about tubes is that they come so late that I only build 'em during score-booster or curiosity games (i.e., seeking Transcendence). Thank heaven for Ctrl-T to have tubes built automatically.
Thanks, Krushala, for the reminder of the Civ2 howitzer blitz. I may dust that game off for a bit of variety this weekend. But for me it raised a parallel question for the thread: how often do you build bunkers? The chokepoint bunker in Civ2 was a key strategy but seems less critical in SMAC. I'm hard-pressed to recall if I've ever used them. (and I hate the Bunker Captured! which ends your move grrrr). A saving grace is that the AI doesn't seem totally obsessed with building empty bunkers like it was in Civ2.
Resource Consumer posted 06-18-99 11:25 AM ET
Nell,
I have a defensive mindset. I wait for the front line to come to me .
Then I wait for choppers and drop troops and it's all over.
RedFred posted 06-18-99 04:26 PM ET
I like mag tubes. Not a carpet, mind you, just enough to connect all my cities. Having the ability to zip troops through the skytrain means I don't have to build as many defenders.
The consensus seems to be that mag tubes would be not as important to the fighters' style game. I am a builder at the TI level and almost always go the transcendant route to victory. So mag tubes are around for a good chunk of the game. Psi gates are not available until near the end so I don't bother with them.
I build multiple redundant sensors in each city radius. If the AI has lots of former and sensor targets, they will often waste a lot of energy trying to take them out rather than fighting a real war. My preference is to avoid fighting - so this suits me fine.
BTW & off topic, in my current game the Spartans just surrendered to me without me firing a single shot. What gives?!! I was out exploring with a skimboat and happened across their territory. In negotiations I opted to maintain a state of war - I think I got dragged in because I wouldn't let Santiago extort tech. She sued for peace, I said no deal and then she unconditionally surrendered to my skimboat 1/3 of planet away from my nearest base. (They were anemic, I was unsurpassed)
-R
Darkstar posted 06-18-99 05:47 PM ET
Sounds like she just really wanted you on her side. Not bad strategy, really. Now, she gets trade, and has a shot of dragging you into her other wars. No one warring on her is going to like you. If the emotion is hot enough (and you have SE alterations), they might just declare war on you. That gives her an ally against them. Think about it.
-Darkstar
eNo posted 06-18-99 09:44 PM ET
I build Mag Tubes linking all my cities. Except there only one path between any two cities so I don't really build that many.
MichaeltheGreat posted 06-18-99 11:56 PM ET
I connect all my cities, but (not that the AI ever gets close enough to attack me) I don't build them around my coast line, but only on interior lines, such that any enemy unit has to fight past my outer cities' zone of control.
Normally, I build dense clusters of lots of size 8-12 cities, so any enemy that conquered one of my cities (ain't ever happened yet) can't get very far before bumping against another city full of defenders. I keep my cities stocked with an adequate mixt of defensive units, but centralize small groups of artillery and hovertanks - any enemy that did get into my territory will be instantly obliterated, since I can mass all my artillery and hovertanks from my entire continent, assuming I needed that much.
googlie posted 06-19-99 12:31 AM ET
I'm with RedFred - at heart a builder, and always with more formers than I need, so magtubes for them.
3 or 4 tame demon boils able to zip around your territory sure can make Planet's mindworms sit up and take notice (right Little Hatchling?)
Googlie
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Author	Topic: does anyone use mag tubes?
aceplayer	posted 06-16-99 05:20 PM ET I dont use mag tubes. Semms like when I invade a place with mag tubes - I can conquer as many cities as I want on one turn. Anyone use this to advantage? btw - try my Scenario Site. You will love it! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dome/3802/ Prove how good you really are !!
Krushala	posted 06-16-99 06:04 PM ET I use the enemies magtubes sometimes. But it seems the computer ai never builds very many even if they have the required tech. It's only till late game they might have all their cities connected. I loved using the enemies railroads against them in civ2 with howitzers. Oh how I miss them.
aceplayer	posted 06-16-99 06:11 PM ET of course I use the AI's mag tubes... Seems like if the opp has mag tubes connecting cities, I can drop in and conquer all in one turn.... I dont build them myself...
umbra1	posted 06-16-99 06:18 PM ET I try to link all my cities with mag tubes, it really helps in the late game "Mindworm Rush". When you spot a fungal bloom somewhere on your empire, you can move in enough forces from any and all of your cites to flame them before they get to your bases.
cousLee	posted 06-16-99 07:15 PM ET Mag tubes are great for connecting your bases. The AI is just not smart enough to protect itself. Build bunkers on the magtube tiles between your bases. that will allow you the freedom of the movement bonus, but stop a base blitz. (IE any tile next to a base, that has a tube).
OldWarrior_42	posted 06-16-99 08:21 PM ET The last game I played was the first builder game I have played and the mag tubes really helped with the defense of my cities because I didnt need that many units to defend and they were able to get everywhere right away. Needless to say in the future I will use them if my games last that long.
Koshko	posted 06-16-99 09:05 PM ET I build Mag Tubes up until I get Psi Gate. Then, I just build those. I usually end up with a small-scale Mag Tube network connecting my early built cities. The others stay a Magless frontier.
Aredhran	posted 06-17-99 04:15 AM ET I use them... if the game is not over by the time I discover monopole magnets I think I really have to play a builder game one of these days. If only shiny would send me his SNAC mod... Aredhran
Resource Consumer	posted 06-17-99 04:29 AM ET I never even build roads - why help the AI to probe you?
Aredhran	posted 06-17-99 08:23 AM ET Probes ? build sensors to detect them ahead of time, and send a unit to wipe them out, and keep probes garrisoned in your cities (they're free anyway). Better yet, build HSA... Aredhran
Resource Consumer	posted 06-17-99 08:42 AM ET Yeah. Point taken. Unfortunately, I always seem to have trouble getting to the HSA before Zak and always seem to find more interesting things to do than to build sensors. Still wouldn't build roads though
Darkstar	posted 06-17-99 01:50 PM ET Well, if I have the tech, I'll connect my cities. But Mag Tubes are WAY too far up the Tech tree for me to even THINK about using them in the near future. now, having said that... Mag Tubes (and roads, to a lesser extent) are great for allowing you to deploy reserves to the points you need them... you should consider building them. Really helps when Planet takes a dislike to you to be able to move in reinforcements to your Planet Threatened bases. As far as sensors go... generally, in my play style, every peaceful base gets (unit)recycle tanks, terraformer, (unit/pod), in that order. The first thing the Former does is move, drop a sensor, then a road, then a forest. I know the road is out of order, but its a Civ habit. I like a line to retreat my non-combatants on... If the tile is a flat arid one, road goes in first. All of your bases should have at least ONE sensor. That Sensor bonus can make a LOT of difference between having to replace a unit, the base, or not. Its only a few turns out from terraforming the base lands anyways, and the benefits far exceed the delay. Especially if you like to make peace or pact with Lal... he loves those probes on your land... -Darkstar
DilithiumDad	posted 06-17-99 02:42 PM ET The only time I use magtubes is when I have built a land bridge to an enemy with my formers --this leads to long supply lines and mag tubes along the main migration route to the land bridge can really help --even if it's just a few tiles. I never complete the network before the game ends, though. Zach really likes mag tubes. he builds them more than other AI players.
ddayjoe44	posted 06-17-99 04:00 PM ET Aceplayer - I tried to get to your "Dome" Scenario site, NO LUCK! ???? Try that link again!
Q Cubed	posted 06-17-99 04:10 PM ET I always build mag tubes, covering every city square within my empire with them. i never worried about invasion (on Transcend, too) because of my isolationist tactics. of course, i like the overpowered copters and drop/amphib rovers.
Nell_Smith	posted 06-17-99 04:17 PM ET I find that, by the time Monopole Magnets arrives, the game is all but over... although I often find that the AI factions (Yang's a prime culprit) have managed to absolutely plaster their terrain with mag tubes, despite only owning about two Formers. Nice work, Former driving guys!! hehe Sensors, on the other hand, are absolutely vital in my opinion... once any essential forest/farm/solar work is done, my bases get at least one sensor each, and more as the game progresses, as the AI loves to take out sensor arrays before attacking... it makes their life harder if each base has two or three covering it. They take very little time to build and are well worth it, not only for the defensive bonus, but also to spot those pesky mindworms in time to attack them before they attack you... I often deploy one or two Rover Formers to do nothing but run around building sensors and/or roads, leaving the slower crawler Formers to get on with the boring agricultural work. Resource Consumer: don't you find that, without roads, it's hassley moving troops to the front line when you go to war, and difficult to boost your SP production with supply crawlers? I don't usually start building a road network until around M.Y.2150, but then I get on with it pretty quickly, so that I can (if necessary) use my central, high-minerals bases as troop production factories and get those troops to the front line quickly. Without roads, those Infantry units really do creep along... Aredhran: Yeah, a probe team in every base is essential... more than one, if you're anywhere near Miriam or Morgan, with their waves of annoying probes washing over your borders all the time! But, as you say (and I agree), with sensors you've got a much better chance of spotting probes on their way towards your bases, so you can attack/expel them before they get a chance to snaffle your data files Nell... wondering why all her PBEMs have died
aceplayer	posted 06-17-99 04:36 PM ET sorry ddayjoe44 - geocities server must have been down when you tried it Its working now - hey what do you expect for free space ???
Earwicker	posted 06-18-99 11:20 AM ET I'm with Nell on the sensors. More important than growth is the ability to survive long enough to grow. Once that former heads out of the base, a sensor comes up, then a road, then a forest. Knowledge is power and all that jazz. And yes, the bummer about tubes is that they come so late that I only build 'em during score-booster or curiosity games (i.e., seeking Transcendence). Thank heaven for Ctrl-T to have tubes built automatically. Thanks, Krushala, for the reminder of the Civ2 howitzer blitz. I may dust that game off for a bit of variety this weekend. But for me it raised a parallel question for the thread: how often do you build bunkers? The chokepoint bunker in Civ2 was a key strategy but seems less critical in SMAC. I'm hard-pressed to recall if I've ever used them. (and I hate the Bunker Captured! which ends your move grrrr). A saving grace is that the AI doesn't seem totally obsessed with building empty bunkers like it was in Civ2.
Resource Consumer	posted 06-18-99 11:25 AM ET Nell, I have a defensive mindset. I wait for the front line to come to me . Then I wait for choppers and drop troops and it's all over.
RedFred	posted 06-18-99 04:26 PM ET I like mag tubes. Not a carpet, mind you, just enough to connect all my cities. Having the ability to zip troops through the skytrain means I don't have to build as many defenders. The consensus seems to be that mag tubes would be not as important to the fighters' style game. I am a builder at the TI level and almost always go the transcendant route to victory. So mag tubes are around for a good chunk of the game. Psi gates are not available until near the end so I don't bother with them. I build multiple redundant sensors in each city radius. If the AI has lots of former and sensor targets, they will often waste a lot of energy trying to take them out rather than fighting a real war. My preference is to avoid fighting - so this suits me fine. BTW & off topic, in my current game the Spartans just surrendered to me without me firing a single shot. What gives?!! I was out exploring with a skimboat and happened across their territory. In negotiations I opted to maintain a state of war - I think I got dragged in because I wouldn't let Santiago extort tech. She sued for peace, I said no deal and then she unconditionally surrendered to my skimboat 1/3 of planet away from my nearest base. (They were anemic, I was unsurpassed) -R
Darkstar	posted 06-18-99 05:47 PM ET Sounds like she just really wanted you on her side. Not bad strategy, really. Now, she gets trade, and has a shot of dragging you into her other wars. No one warring on her is going to like you. If the emotion is hot enough (and you have SE alterations), they might just declare war on you. That gives her an ally against them. Think about it. -Darkstar
eNo	posted 06-18-99 09:44 PM ET I build Mag Tubes linking all my cities. Except there only one path between any two cities so I don't really build that many.
MichaeltheGreat	posted 06-18-99 11:56 PM ET I connect all my cities, but (not that the AI ever gets close enough to attack me) I don't build them around my coast line, but only on interior lines, such that any enemy unit has to fight past my outer cities' zone of control. Normally, I build dense clusters of lots of size 8-12 cities, so any enemy that conquered one of my cities (ain't ever happened yet) can't get very far before bumping against another city full of defenders. I keep my cities stocked with an adequate mixt of defensive units, but centralize small groups of artillery and hovertanks - any enemy that did get into my territory will be instantly obliterated, since I can mass all my artillery and hovertanks from my entire continent, assuming I needed that much.
googlie	posted 06-19-99 12:31 AM ET I'm with RedFred - at heart a builder, and always with more formers than I need, so magtubes for them. 3 or 4 tame demon boils able to zip around your territory sure can make Planet's mindworms sit up and take notice (right Little Hatchling?) Googlie