Simpsons = CTP, an interesting comparision

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Author Topic:   Simpsons = CTP, an interesting comparision

Dreadnought posted 06-06-99 03:23 PM ET
Remember that one episode of the Simpsons where they move to that one town and Homer get the job working for the supervillian? There is a part of that show that I can't help thinking about when I tried CTP. The part I'm refering to is when Marge gets ready to clean the new house, but the oven is self cleaning, the garden is self mainteninced and the vacuum is set for "dust patrol". Marge is at first happy that she doesn't have to do her work, but then she realizes she now has nothing to occupy her time.
Point is, Activision makes CTP so anti-micro managment and takes away the work that makes creating your empire from scratch so damn satisfying. Yea, Public Works is easy, but is it fun? Is setting up an entire network of roads to all of your cities in one turn fufiling? Sure, the little folder tabs at the bottom of the screen make accesing and managing your cites fast and easy, but is it enjoyable? Now that terraforming and city management are out of the way, what do we do? Diplomacy is boring, I'd much rather deal with interesting leaders such as Acedemician Zakharov than the 2-D emisary from the Mayans. The combat portion is a joke, and I can only see my War Walkers lose to a lesser number of Musketeers before I begin slaughtering nearby inatimate objects at a feverish pace.
So what is there left now? Nothing. It's nice sometimes to get tedious micromanagment out of the way, but isn't micromanagment what these types of games are all about? Most likely the poeple who think PW is the greatest thing since sliced bread (pardon the cliche) are the same type of people who think a Quake II death match is a stress on the ol' noggin. What's next? Permanet autofly for Jane's flight simulators? Auto kill option for Quake III? When I play Civ III will I see little clickable option box that reads, "Run my empire for me while I pick up some groceries"?
In conclusion I'd like to say if you find things like sending a flock of settlers/formers out and reshaping the landscape slowly and carefully a monotonous task, stick to Quake. Future Civ-designers are gonna be reading what the majority of us are saying, and if that is, "We like Public Works!" or "We hate micromanagement in our Civ games!" then that is what we are going to get.

Dreadnought
PS- Yea I did post this in the Non-SMAC forum, but I just now realized this would be the more proper place for it.
MichaeltheGreat posted 06-06-99 04:46 PM ET
Dreadnought - there are different levels and degrees of micromanagement. I never automate anything in the game, do to the A-nonI's poor handling of it. But individually working 75 terraformers and making the same arecane little decisions for 40 cities is a pain in the ass - mid game sag at the extreme.
Good game design will allow a reasonable level of detailed control, so the player can make the most important decisions, but also turn a lot of grunt work over to a functioning AI that will do its job right.
The problem with CTP is that there isn't much added to "compensate" for the micromanagement that's taken away. They've simply lamed the game out, by reducing the players involvement in some aspects.
Seriously - what would you rather do - play MicroSimCity 40 times by dicking around with each former and micromanaging city production, or have a real alternative with more challenging/rewarding/punishing if you screw up diplomacy, trade, and combat abilities? Given the choice, I'm more into being an emperor than a city bureaucrat - the problem is we haven't been given the richness of diplomatic, economic and military gameplay.
Rackam posted 06-07-99 06:25 AM ET
"play MicroSimCity 40 times by dicking around with each former and micromanaging city production,"
I do this, which is why most of my SMAC games last 40+ hours each. The sim-mayor inside can't do it any other way
~Rackam
Earwicker posted 06-08-99 08:31 AM ET
I think there's a happy medium for automation vs micromanagement. Never let governors have your bases: they'll mess you up.
"Auto-improve home base" tends to make better decisions than plain "automate formers", especially on sea bases. Limiting the number of things you let them do helps a lot -- don't autoremove fungus, place sensors, bunkers, or roads. Those are best left to your discretion.
I manually plant a couple of forest squares, start on boreholes and new rivers if I have the tech, then let them go for a while.
"Build road to" and "build tube to" work okay, as long as there's not too much fungus in between (AI will often have them avoid it even if going over one square would be much shorter). Those are usually best for connecting newly-conquered lands to your homebases.
Make the most of the "save queue" ability, with many different lists for accommodate your many different needs.
All that said, I'm with Rackam -- it may take me 20-30 hours of playtime to finish a game. Forgive my disjointed thoughts: unit lacks required coffee.
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Author	Topic: Simpsons = CTP, an interesting comparision
Dreadnought	posted 06-06-99 03:23 PM ET Remember that one episode of the Simpsons where they move to that one town and Homer get the job working for the supervillian? There is a part of that show that I can't help thinking about when I tried CTP. The part I'm refering to is when Marge gets ready to clean the new house, but the oven is self cleaning, the garden is self mainteninced and the vacuum is set for "dust patrol". Marge is at first happy that she doesn't have to do her work, but then she realizes she now has nothing to occupy her time. Point is, Activision makes CTP so anti-micro managment and takes away the work that makes creating your empire from scratch so damn satisfying. Yea, Public Works is easy, but is it fun? Is setting up an entire network of roads to all of your cities in one turn fufiling? Sure, the little folder tabs at the bottom of the screen make accesing and managing your cites fast and easy, but is it enjoyable? Now that terraforming and city management are out of the way, what do we do? Diplomacy is boring, I'd much rather deal with interesting leaders such as Acedemician Zakharov than the 2-D emisary from the Mayans. The combat portion is a joke, and I can only see my War Walkers lose to a lesser number of Musketeers before I begin slaughtering nearby inatimate objects at a feverish pace. So what is there left now? Nothing. It's nice sometimes to get tedious micromanagment out of the way, but isn't micromanagment what these types of games are all about? Most likely the poeple who think PW is the greatest thing since sliced bread (pardon the cliche) are the same type of people who think a Quake II death match is a stress on the ol' noggin. What's next? Permanet autofly for Jane's flight simulators? Auto kill option for Quake III? When I play Civ III will I see little clickable option box that reads, "Run my empire for me while I pick up some groceries"? In conclusion I'd like to say if you find things like sending a flock of settlers/formers out and reshaping the landscape slowly and carefully a monotonous task, stick to Quake. Future Civ-designers are gonna be reading what the majority of us are saying, and if that is, "We like Public Works!" or "We hate micromanagement in our Civ games!" then that is what we are going to get. Dreadnought PS- Yea I did post this in the Non-SMAC forum, but I just now realized this would be the more proper place for it.
MichaeltheGreat	posted 06-06-99 04:46 PM ET Dreadnought - there are different levels and degrees of micromanagement. I never automate anything in the game, do to the A-nonI's poor handling of it. But individually working 75 terraformers and making the same arecane little decisions for 40 cities is a pain in the ass - mid game sag at the extreme. Good game design will allow a reasonable level of detailed control, so the player can make the most important decisions, but also turn a lot of grunt work over to a functioning AI that will do its job right. The problem with CTP is that there isn't much added to "compensate" for the micromanagement that's taken away. They've simply lamed the game out, by reducing the players involvement in some aspects. Seriously - what would you rather do - play MicroSimCity 40 times by dicking around with each former and micromanaging city production, or have a real alternative with more challenging/rewarding/punishing if you screw up diplomacy, trade, and combat abilities? Given the choice, I'm more into being an emperor than a city bureaucrat - the problem is we haven't been given the richness of diplomatic, economic and military gameplay.
Rackam	posted 06-07-99 06:25 AM ET "play MicroSimCity 40 times by dicking around with each former and micromanaging city production," I do this, which is why most of my SMAC games last 40+ hours each. The sim-mayor inside can't do it any other way ~Rackam
Earwicker	posted 06-08-99 08:31 AM ET I think there's a happy medium for automation vs micromanagement. Never let governors have your bases: they'll mess you up. "Auto-improve home base" tends to make better decisions than plain "automate formers", especially on sea bases. Limiting the number of things you let them do helps a lot -- don't autoremove fungus, place sensors, bunkers, or roads. Those are best left to your discretion. I manually plant a couple of forest squares, start on boreholes and new rivers if I have the tech, then let them go for a while. "Build road to" and "build tube to" work okay, as long as there's not too much fungus in between (AI will often have them avoid it even if going over one square would be much shorter). Those are usually best for connecting newly-conquered lands to your homebases. Make the most of the "save queue" ability, with many different lists for accommodate your many different needs. All that said, I'm with Rackam -- it may take me 20-30 hours of playtime to finish a game. Forgive my disjointed thoughts: unit lacks required coffee.