posted 05-24-99 03:01 PM ET        

I don't see a flaw in the 2-1 attack defense ratio. I just see a problem with how the weapons and armor are handed out. It seems too easy for a conqueror to get the techs he needs for attack. While it is hard to get decent defense for the best weapon out (Silksteel to counter Chaos). That makes it most of the time an 8:6 (plasma behind perimeter defense) ratio favoring the attack with best defenses available. If something is held up behind a perimeter defense, it should have a better defense than that. I would say a 200% increase instead of a 100% defense bonus would be good. That would make artillery bombardments necessary, and it would make seiges and terrain enhancement destructrion worthwhile. As of now, its just a waste of time when you can roll over somebody with impact rovers.

All builders should have a rover or two at each base, equipped with the best weapon. This rover goes out and attacks infantry and any other units destroying enhancements. Generally, I have one 1-best defense-1 unit, 1 or 2 (depending on who im near) rover units, and a probe team at each base. I also have probe team scouts... they have no upkeep, so they are good at watching you and your enemies terrain. If you want to cheat, you can add armor to them. Makes them a whole lot harder to kill.

posted 05-24-99 03:53 PM ET            

Goob, do you want to field this one? I mean, you have crossed over to the Dark side, and I would like to see how well you have been practicing and growing. :O

Wow... I am a Type of Player now! There are Builders, and Conquerors, and Darkstars! How about that? Should I change my name to Darkstar, Lord of the Sith? wait, I already have that title on a few boards...

posted 05-24-99 05:06 PM ET            

Seriously, its the 4-1 and greater odds in the mid-game that I find truly ridiculous in single play. And what is up with Gatling and Fusion Weapons? I get those Techs after Missile and Tachy 95% of the time (respectively). And when playing with Blind Off, is there any reason NOT to take Impact? In the few games I have played with Blind OFF, it offers me Lasers and Impact at the same time. Is that something that just my machine does (since it seemingly has such great fun doing things like that in SMAC) or do the rest of you Wide Eye Researchers see that in the beginning?

posted 05-24-99 07:17 PM ET            

Darkstar, I get Impact and Plasma steel at the same time, yes I occaisionally get offered Impact before Laser, (1/4 of the time?) I never have seen 4/1 attack ratios except onee game when my elite Shard rovers were attacking Morgans Green Plasma Steel Garrisons tht was fun.

Production, against equal opponents, must be used to further expand your production. This is done either through conquest or growth, not through defense.

A 2:1 ratio or any other is moot. Get a good defender to keep of lone sniper attacks, and then build your units on the attack strategy.

Darkstar, I still prefer SMAC games where I build and mentally masturbate. I can do this all day vs. the AI, I will learn how well it works againt HI.

posted 05-25-99 01:59 AM ET            

If you build a few attack Rovers per base, and then roads between all bases, before anything else, then when he comes to get you, he will stop 1-2 tiles away from your base(unless you have a damned river leading up to yourr border) before he can attack it, you attack, and he dies. One sensor on your border and you know that he is coming in time to move the whole of your defensive force to intercept.
Mass building colony pods and trying to create a huge empire is fine, but the bigger an empire, the more of a pain in the ass it is to defend(and harvest, remember Efficiency). A huge empire is only necessary for supporting a huge attack force, which quite frankly is unnecessary(and counter builder). Concentrating enough units in one place and attacking quickly lets you roll over any passive defender. I recently played one TI game as the Spartans, and I restricted myself to just six bases the entire game. I still was able to conquer anyone at any time I wished by focusing enough units in one place at one time. I stayed Demo./Free./Know. almost the entire time(except for a jump to Planned for Pop. Boom), and by the later game I was getting either a tech every two turns on 80% research, or 1500 credits a turn on %100 research.
PS. I tried the sensor trick last night, and I think that senors only add a TOTAL
25% bonus, not a %25 per sensor bonus.

posted 05-25-99 03:13 PM ET         

The general consensus seems to be that the more serious problem is the order in which some of the techs are found, (i.e. chaos gun before silksteel armor, etc) so that the ratio seems greater than 2:1 a lot of times.

I guess the ECM special ability is supposed to make up for that, since that makes plasma units behind perimeter defense have a defense of 3 * 1.5 * 2 = 9, which can withstand chaos rovers. For infantry, I guess you just have to attack them when they get close enough to your base.

posted 05-25-99 03:31 PM ET            

You are in error on the calculation. The bonuses are addtitive. Hence the breakdown is as follows:

Intrinsic = 12
Base = + 3 ( +25% of intrinsic)
Perimeter = +12 (+100% of intrinsic)
Tachyon = +12 (+100% of intrinsic)
Aerospace = +12 (+100% of intrinsic)
Sensor = + 3 ( +25% of intrinsic)
--------------------------------------
Total = 54

That is, of course, still three times better than the attack strength of conventional missiles at 18, and if you have a better reactor than the missile, so much the better.

posted 05-25-99 04:41 PM ET            

K, my argument is that your army is better used for offense, by all means keep a mobile reserve, (but consider it a reserve not a defensive response force) If you can counter attack to defeat him at your doorstep you could do the same thing at your Borders, if you can do it at your Borders then take it to your opponents borders, and so on.

posted 05-25-99 05:02 PM ET            

I won't mention what I just downloaded to my extra work PC....SHHH...

posted 05-25-99 05:07 PM ET            

Old Warrior... are you taking to subtle flaming now, ala MikeH II. Math test huh? Yeah, we have those from time to time as students. The things us young'n's must go through.

posted 05-25-99 06:13 PM ET            

Whether it is true or not.

I once had a RPG game master who gave us extra bene's if we kept a narrative of our characters adventures, both in the game and out of the game. It was great fun.

posted 05-25-99 07:28 PM ET            

Thanks for paying attention to my post and pointing out my mistake. You're both right on that, I got carried away and should not have include that +3 for the base bonus.

posted 05-25-99 07:52 PM ET            

Wait ... I'm a wannabe-SMACGOD too!

Waaaaaaaahhh!

posted 05-26-99 10:09 AM ET            

About the calculations... I may be wrong on that one, but I thought that PD were not taken into account against air defense. Is this correct ? Maybe I should check. I have never used a Tachyon field either (just built a couple, to listen to the quote )

I must say, I rarely have to defend against air strikes as I usually smash the AI before it gets to that, although my current Yang game might see some mighty air battles... coming soon !

posted 05-26-99 11:01 AM ET            

Also, not all bonuses are mutliplicative in SMAC. Some use a combination of additive and multiplication, or so you had informed us previously (Tachy and Perim are added before being multipled against, yadda yadda yadda). Maybe we should get Firaxis to TELL us and settle the matter?

Goob, I had asked if SMAC offered you *LASERS* and *IMPACT* at the same time when playing Wide Eyed (Blind Off). I don't regularly play Wide Eyed, but whenever I have, it has always offered them to me at the same time. What is the point in that? Also, when playing Wide Eyed, I have noticed that the AI gets tech faster/better. Has anyone else noticed that? Miriam gets that Plasma Armor AWFUL quick...

posted 05-26-99 11:46 AM ET            

Is this really happening or is my memory (personal, not RAM) playing tricks with me?

posted 05-26-99 12:43 PM ET            

And I almost always get Impact offered when I get Lasers offered in Wide Eyed. Humm... Something odd is going on with Blind Off. Maybe if just ONE of the prerequisites are met in Wide Eyed, you get the offer? Or if the prerequisites are met and or shown (offered), you get the offer? I remember quite well making GREAT leaps of advances using Wide Eyed.

posted 05-26-99 01:44 PM ET         

Everything else is 100% definitely multiplicative. Sorry, but anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves and is posting nonsense, not even having bothered confirming it in the game.

posted 05-26-99 02:28 PM ET            

Well, I have been known to, on occasion, post nonsense, errors and outright drivel. Many of my posts in this particular thread are prime examples of such. According to the calculation box on the screen, I would say that you are correct in the multiplicative effects. I tried to confirm this through actual combat against a few different setups, but the pseudo-random number generator in SMAC is poorly designed and does not use an externally generated seed. Therefore, if you make the exact same attack in the exact same sequence during the turn, you'll get the exact same results. I ran out of patience on this go around but will monkey around with it later. I will, of course post any of my findings, including erroneous assumptions or assertions made by my all too fallible self.

posted 05-28-99 03:07 PM ET            

Speaking of mods, but I noticed last night that in a naval versus naval long range fight, my unit which initiated combat against an ocean positioned naval unit gained height advantage for being in port. When the AI's twin foil attacked and my naval unit countered (still in port), it gained base and height advantage. I thought ships in port were supposed to be screwed when caught. Or was that another brain burp brought on by too many barbeques, beans, and beer?

posted 05-28-99 03:39 PM ET            

But I don't recall seeing LAND arty stationed
in a base gaining height advantage when stationed in a city that was a port city versus Naval bombardment. Strange strange strange...