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why do you hate the believers?
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Alpha Centauri Forums
The Game
why do you hate the believers?
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| Author | Topic: why do you hate the believers? |
| MarkG |
posted 05-05-99 04:27 PM ET  
we started a "which faction do you hate more" poll today, and the believers are geting a 60%!! comments? Markos, Apoyton CS |
| JohnIII |
posted 05-05-99 04:40 PM ET
'coz they're crap at research. And I'm an atheist. John III |
| eNo |
posted 05-05-99 05:30 PM ET
I usually play either the Hive or the UoP. Beleivers have a natural dislike for UoP and they dislike the Police State of the Hive. Also they're very aggressive and I'm a builder. I don't like fighting wars. |
| Black Dragon |
posted 05-05-99 05:34 PM ET
The Believers Rock. Its so fun stealing all the UOP's tech attacking them into submission, enslaving them, giving back all their bases, and forcing them to research for you. I just like playing the "holy crusader" style. I actually hate playing as the UOP though, I play on Transcend, where those drones can be really annoying. |
| LackOfKnack |
posted 05-05-99 05:38 PM ET
A few reasons: 1. They are not very accurately portrayed. I am talking AI here, real players could probably smoke with them, as long as the UoP doesn't build the HSA or a human player plays the UoP. Only 60%? I'd be guessing around 90. Oh well. Back to my English essay. Lack |
| Darkstar |
posted 05-05-99 06:32 PM ET
Top Ten reasons everyone hates the Believers... 1. They Suck! Seriously, Miriam's people are hated because she's way too aggressive and not smart enough to get away with it. Trying to wage a war against the Human when she is a weak power is just silly. So, when you couple overly-active testorine laden attitude with lack or rationality and too stubborn to back down for the good of her people, you get someone who just "Sucks!". Plus, her graphics are just UGLY. (I'm talking for her bases... what are you talking about? And Lack, she didn't get 90% because the Hive got about 35% of the vote. It was an agonizing decision when I voted over which Faction do I hate the worst (as AI)... Hive or Believers... -Darkstar |
| Shining1 |
posted 05-05-99 07:16 PM ET
Ah, the believers. Crusading across planet with +25% attack and +2 support. As well as immunity to probe teams and the best probes this side of southpark. The Believers don't suck. Played well, they rank as high as the Hive does in the conqueror stakes. SMAC is not a builders game. The evidence is all around. |
| LackOfKnack |
posted 05-05-99 07:46 PM ET
You have a problem with Yang? He usually gives in, even if I already have half his bases, he submits in the end. I just send some LoC over and take a base to wipe out the rest. Lack |
| Raman |
posted 05-05-99 08:38 PM ET
I hate Miriam because she, judging from her actions, hates everyone else. to boil it down, she's judgemental; distrustful (breaks treaties & pacts); demanding (give me tech or $$$ or else), etc., etc. And I only say this after giving this faction several chances. I've gone as far as setting up my SE to "fundamentalist" and staying away from a "knowledge" goal. I managed once to get her as a Pact sister -- but, alas, out of the blue and for no aparent reason, she declares pact void & next few turns, vendetta upon me. That was after I'd given her several gifts, too... By the way, did I mention ungrateful? I guess this is why I love watching her fry and yelling, "Take that, you bitch!" The term "hipocrite" comes to mind, too. |
| Al Gore Rythm |
posted 05-05-99 09:55 PM ET
Well, I myself am a Christian (I don't think there are many people of my type playing video games, but hey!) But I don't hate UoP, people who take video games to that extent need to take games less seriously. Personally, I voted for Gaians as my most hated. Mostly becuase Deidre just crawls all around the map and than just gathers dust. I actually think the Believers are a pretty darn good faction. Those who speak otherwise (the majority, anyway) usually have never even played them. The Believers require alot of advent from the normal style of gameplay, but if you can adjust to that you can kick serious butt. Believers really don't need as much tech as the other factions because they can easily support huge armies and can have super-high morale. An Elite Believing unit has +75% on offense. So a Believing unit with a Particle Impactor will wind up acting (almost) like a Chaos Gun with attack level 7, barring any other modifiers. And with probes, you don't really need to research at all. So you UoPeers can research in 4 turns, and I can steal that same research in one turn, mwahaha But if we're talking AI here, Miriam is a pretty annoying troll, but I think the Hive and Gaians can overshadow that. |
| LackOfKnack |
posted 05-05-99 10:03 PM ET
I too am Christian. Yes, as I said before, playing them is one thing, but going against the AI who plays them is another. I personally like the Gaians when I play (as UoP) because I like Green SE (with Democ, Euda, and Wealth) and so I always get a pact. The Hive is so-so, but the Beleivers are the _worst_ with AI. Lack |
| OldWarrior_42 |
posted 05-05-99 10:38 PM ET
Darkstar said they suck and Miriam is ugly. I beg to differ... I think Miriam is ugly and they suck Actually.. the first time I ever played the game, she was the first one I ever made contact with and she immediately threatened me and started making demands...so I killed her. That pissed me off and I have hated her ever since. I think though that is one of the plusses of the game. Instead of just the red team or blue or whatever you have opponents who give you a sense of playing someone other than an object. They cause personal feelings in you that I think is pretty cool. |
| Lirix |
posted 05-05-99 11:04 PM ET
Hey, let's take a poll of the religious breakdown of strategic gamers! So far we have: Any faithful followers of Allah about? Um, I'm missing several other major religions at this point, but inquiring minds want to know(or something). Lirix |
| Evk |
posted 05-05-99 11:20 PM ET
Uh, I'm a Buddist, if you want to count that. All you need now are Hindies, Jews, Moslems, those other guys, Shintoists, the guys who worships rocks and crap, the other guys, the guys who.... well, anyway, that's the big ones. Don't forget the Jains! |
| OldWarrior_42 |
posted 05-05-99 11:22 PM ET
I was raised a methodist. My wife is catholic so my kids are raised the same. I go only a few times a year to church with them(you know, holidays blah blah). I just dont think I need to be in a particular place on a specific day at a certain time to talk to god. Seems to me that 4 oclock wed. afternoon on the highway just before slamming into the back of a semi is as good a time as any. ( I think this should have been posted in the blah blah thread as I made reference to it) |
| Lirix |
posted 05-05-99 11:30 PM ET
Can't claim much knowledge of Buddism myself, but I thought it was more philosophical than religious from what little I've heard. And I'll update now too.(Methodist is Christian right? I haven't paid much attention to denominations in a long time.) Christians 4 |
| OldWarrior_42 |
posted 05-05-99 11:43 PM ET
Yea if I remember back to 27 years ago I think they were christian. Thats how long since I've been there. I dont think they changed but you never know. Anyone know the difference between a baptist and methodist? Answer to follow later. |
| cousLee |
posted 05-06-99 12:07 AM ET
Christian here also. And The Believers ROCK. They are my favorite faction to play. They fit my style of strategy. When I don't play them, I usually don't have the problems others post about. I don't have problems with pacts with Miriam either so I don't know whats the fuss. I agree it is a testament to the game, to have AIs that actually get some people so heated! This is a great game. and she is not that ugly.  |
| Al Gore Rythm |
posted 05-06-99 12:12 AM ET
Hey, I kinda wondered this but never did it. Could someone lend the faction leader ages (subtracting 40 years in stasis, of course.) Miriam is certinely ugly, but I think I'd let it pass if she were 50 or so. I do know Yang is in his 60s but that's about it. Evk: You sure are polite, those people who worship rocks and crap? Heh |
| Dim Cat |
posted 05-06-99 12:23 AM ET
Well, I'm a Christian too (Baptist, for those who are interested in difference  ), and I don't like believers the way they are made in SMAC. The reason is pretty simple: Miriam is a fanatic, and fanatism has nothing to do with <I>real</I> Christianity. And the way they name their bases is just annoying. |
| Jythexinvok |
posted 05-06-99 01:09 AM ET
Well, I like to play less war-oriented games, so the believers usualy tend to get annoying since there is rarely any other way to deal with them. So my reasons for dislikeing the believers: (1) Single minded AI (2) Poor diplomatic skills (3) Almost always gets whiped out early anyway. (4) annoying city names make it hard to take them seriously (same complaint about PeaceKeepers) (5) Too easy to kill. I've never once played a game where the believer AI posed any real threat, it just takes up space and whines alot. As for the poll, I'll have to go with Discordian. |
| Aredhran |
posted 05-06-99 04:14 AM ET
I can't understand why so many people seem to hate us Believers. Sister Miriam and myself, her most faithful and devoted lover - er, I mean, follower - only wish to open the infidels' eyes to the Truth and the Beauty of God. -General "two-guns" cousLee (no offense, cous |
| jig |
posted 05-06-99 04:50 AM ET
I'm an agnost. I have no religion. Does that count as a religion? |
| Lirix |
posted 05-06-99 05:12 AM ET
I guess if we go by faith then yeh, agnostic is a religion. So you believe "in a God, just not yours" as one of my friends used to say. Christians 6 Lirix |
| GaryD |
posted 05-06-99 05:35 AM ET
Why would anyone hate the believers ? They're such great cannon fodder. |
| Lloyd |
posted 05-06-99 06:21 AM ET
LoK: The Believers "are not very accurately portrayed" ??? Are you privy to information the rest of us don't have? If so, I have a couple of stocks I'd like to ask you about... Lloyd |
| Fakktor |
posted 05-06-99 07:02 AM ET
Ok. I'm a pre-satanist though i still read LaVey's books and agrees with his ideas but nowadays I think it's kind of embarasing to run around shouting "I'M A SATANIST!!!" I really hate Miriam because of her selfabsorbant attitude. You can't run around demanding things all the time when all you got is 1 (one) small base and 10.000 followers. She seems... I dunno, she just sux! You cannot rule the world with her ideas in the back. It's impossible. But let's focus on her good sides for a minute or two. I like her looks. But ok, i've got the hots for older women. She knows what she wants and she wants it bad. It's kinda hate/love thing going on between her and me! |
| DeVore |
posted 05-06-99 07:17 AM ET
Miriam rocks! Anybody with the guts to demand total surrender of empires that are 10 times as big as his errr her own gets a ++ in my book. My #1 hater is that Sleazy "If we can't beat them lets talk talk talk while we outgrow them" Halal dude. As far as religion goes I'm a "If there is a god I hate the bloody bastard" type. /Dev |
| SnowFire |
posted 05-06-99 05:52 PM ET
Lirix: This isn't the time or place for a discussion like that. "1. They are not very accurately portrayed." By definition, they are a faction of fundamentalist, prostelytizing Christians. I think that given that, they are very well portrayed. I am a Presbyterian, but I fully recognize that there are plenty of fundamentalists out there who have a different interpretation of the "nice" part of the Bible. In any case, see the Crusades, jihad, 36th Arab-Israeli war, etc., if you don't believe that religion can turn violent. "2. They never give in in a war even if they've lost 60 bases." I agree with Shining1 in that the Believers, played well, are definitely one of the better factions. Certainly a lot better than Morgan or Lal. So, MarkG, it comes down to not hating the fact that the Believers are a bad faction to play, but rather ideology. The Believers are such an evil corruption of Christianity that it's not hard at all to hate them. |
| CrayonX |
posted 05-06-99 06:07 PM ET
Snowfire: did Lirix touch a nerve or something? Lighten up! The thread is still on focus! I'm Christian too(more accurately "born again"). The Lord's Believers are a little fanatical for my tastes -- Miriam is the equivalent of a cult leader. However, I have used her once for a game, and it has it's own challenges, but it's not a preference. I think most people just look at her picture and go "bleah" and I wonder if more people would like using them if they (Firaxis) switched the picture with Corazon or Deidre, or if the leader was male (although that may evoke controversy and comparisons with modern society, and people will start accusing Firaxis of supporting cultish things). That's society for you. CrayonX |
| Lodi |
posted 05-06-99 07:41 PM ET
Lirix, to clarify a point on who is a Christian.Catholics are Christians.And so are all protestant religions.I am not sure on the Orthodox religions though.So methodists are Christians. |
| Lodi |
posted 05-06-99 07:46 PM ET
To profess my religious beleifs, I am, and hopefully always to be, an atheist. So the Pope can just shove it! |
| Lodi |
posted 05-06-99 07:46 PM ET
To profess my religious beleifs, I am, and hopefully always to be, an atheist. |
| Lodi |
posted 05-06-99 07:53 PM ET
Oh boy....thought it did not send that post out....should keep those thoughts to myself....now it is time to commit suicide and silence myself.... |
| Evk |
posted 05-06-99 09:31 PM ET
You know, one thing I've yet to see is, for example, a Hindi going on the air and pulling a Pat Robertson: "Vishnu told me to come down here today. Vishnu said, Billy Bob, you go down there and you tell those people, 'Vishnu said to send me - Billy Bob - $10,000 or you would get a horrible disease'. My freinds. Do you want a horrible disease? Do you want you or your loved ones to be plagued by Vishnu? No, I did'nt think so. Please make that check out to 'cash'." |
| BusterMan |
posted 05-06-99 10:02 PM ET
You know if any of you have read the story, you might just feel sorry for the religious bitch. I mean being stuck in a connector tunnel with Shredder fire and explosive going off all around her, you really got to think: That has to suck. -Parker "Athiest in the brain" |
| Evk |
posted 05-06-99 10:22 PM ET
Yeah, it might suck, but it's too bad Miriam did'nt get stuck with the UoP. Now that would have been funny! |
| BusterMan |
posted 05-06-99 11:23 PM ET
Yeah, they would probably use her for there version of Project Piro (ref: fac30.mp3, Bioengineering Center, We are all aware the senses can be fooled...) -Parker |
| Lirix |
posted 05-07-99 02:59 AM ET
OK, so we're up to : Christians 8 Atheists 2 Agnostics 1 Hateful Atheists/agnsotics 1 Discordians 1 Buddists 1 Pre-satanists 1 Still no followers of Allah...hmmm. Bah, these forums barely ever stay on topic anyway. Oh, I happen to hate the believers myself. Mostly ideological(Miriam LOST it, ok)but also a little to do with the research loss and heavy probes. I just hate underhanded sneaky probe style attacks. That's why I play Spartan. Why hunt for someone on the take when you can just knock down the door, rifle through the research, and take what you need. Lirix |
| Lirix |
posted 05-07-99 03:02 AM ET
Oops, missed busterman, so it Atheists 3.  |
| OldWarrior_42 |
posted 05-07-99 03:28 AM ET
To Markos.... I cant say I hate playing the beleivers because they are one of the three factions I havent played yet. I just hate her personally for her attitude towards me in other games I have played. Gonna go now and start a new game as the beleivers though to see if they are good as some people say(couslee, Aredhran). Will try some of the tips people have given to play as her and see how well I can do or if I enjoy playing as them. Got 6 hours to kill smacin'...Let you know later |
| Aredhran |
posted 05-07-99 05:14 AM ET
Hey, cousLee is the Miriam fan, not me ! I prefer Deirdre (naked, of course )... Aredhran |
| Aredhran |
posted 05-07-99 05:15 AM ET
Oh, and I did not mean that I prefer the Gaians... I prefer *Deirdre* (naked). Aredhran |
| OldWarrior_42 |
posted 05-07-99 06:04 AM ET
Sorry... thought you were endorsing them in this thread . Played about 2 hours with them. Little harder then I thought but challenging. Seems all the other factions hate her too. |
| Frank Moore |
posted 05-07-99 06:42 AM ET
I have always hated the believers, mostly because what they represent in the game is what I don't really like in real life. However, I had to play them, as I want to be able to win with any faction. To make a long story short, they are kinda fum to play. Its hard to get going, but when you do look out! The only thing is that I will have a long endgame due to the military nature of the faction and my game. Bottom line, I hate playing against them, but as a faction to play the Believers are fun to play. |
| Aredhran |
posted 05-07-99 06:52 AM ET
OldWarrior: I enjoy playing TLB every now and then, because they don't really fit my "regular" style of play and thus give me a challenge to adapt my strategy to the faction. The first 10 years without research is really tough... I usually struggle until I get my beloved probe teams, then all bets are off. Watch me, Zak ! There's more than you'd think behind these seemingly sleepy eyes... Aredhran |
| Urban Ranger |
posted 05-07-99 07:14 AM ET
There's one good thing about the Believers: you can almost always sic them against the Hive. And it's not true that their bases are immune to probe teams. They cannot be bought, but you can still steal money, steal tech, cause havoc, etc. |
| HolyWarrior |
posted 05-08-99 01:44 AM ET
I LOVE playing the Believers. Usually I can knock out one faction early, and make another submit. If you're playing the Believers right, -40% research is easily overcome. The AI's mistake is that it has the Believers declare war on everybody. The Believers need at least one friend. Usually Morgan is the best, since he can't wage a war to save his life. Just set up a little 'protection' plan. The worst is Yang. He always declares vendetta and never surrenders. DIE COMMIE BASTARD! DIE DIE DIE!!!! |
| Imran Siddiqui |
posted 05-08-99 01:50 AM ET
I, myself, am a Muslim (one of the few). I dislike Mirium because she just wants to fight! Damn, I hate aggressive, pushy people! Imran Siddiqui |
| HolyWarrior |
posted 05-08-99 01:52 AM ET
And another thing--the Spartans are supposed to be the big tough warmonger faction, right? HA! In every game I've played, the Conclave (I prefer the original name, BTW) eats the Spartans for breakfast. Gaians--can't stand environmental wackoism, but a fun faction to play. |
| Darkstar |
posted 05-08-99 02:16 AM ET
Democracy opposes Fundy for the same reason Democracy opposes Police State - Control of the People. One uses military and law enforcement (police state), the other uses religious teachings/tenents and enforcement of those tenents(fundy). In each case, the people are considered to "not" have a real voice in politics. Thus, Lal gets mad, and Yang gets mad, and Miriam gets mad. Go figure. I think Knowledge pissing off Santiago is just plain Kludgy. An excuse to guarantee war between UoP and Spartans. Warriors want all the knowledge they can gain. Enemies having it is something else, but you WANT all the intel and general knowledge you can gain. Could be the difference between Victory and Defeat, Survival or Death. Very important... -Darkstar |
| High Priest |
posted 05-08-99 01:42 PM ET
I hate Miriam, mostly because the only way to defeat her is to annihilate her. I usually have to take all her cities but one before she cries "Uncle," so I usually just burn her cities to see the entertainment of thousands of dead believers, and watching her writhe in the toture chamber. In most games, no matter how peaceful I am, once I find her I immediatly declare war and go on a mission of extermination. Saves me a lot of those late game worries. Oh, and I'm an atheist. |
| LoD |
posted 05-08-99 03:08 PM ET
The Believers remind me of some priests, who (under the cover of "religion") publish/spread political propaganda. As for the "belief poll", I'm searching for the right religion (I don't what's the term for this state). LoD |
| Valtyr |
posted 05-08-99 08:42 PM ET
I'm an atheist. And I love having those religious fanatics writhing in agony after I attack with my Demon Boil mind worms. |
| Lirix |
posted 05-09-99 03:45 AM ET
Christians 8 Muslims 1 Atheists 5 Agnostics 1 Hateful Atheists/agnsotics 1 Discordians 1 Buddists 1 Pre-satanists 1 Unsure 1 A smorgasbord of beliefs in the strategy realm. I'd still like to hear what a Discordian is though. Lirix |
| Ronbo |
posted 05-09-99 04:21 AM ET
How about non-practicing? I was raised Catholic, but I do not attend church on a regular basis. I have not found a religion that shares my views of who God is, and I doubt that I ever will. I do believe in God, however, and despise anyone who attacks ANY religion, because I feel that religion is a private thing, and the ones who tend to attack other religions with the most zeal are also the ones that try to impose their views on others. |
| Darkstar |
posted 05-09-99 05:15 AM ET
Hail Eris! Lirix, do a search for Discordia and Eris on Yahoo or your favorite web search engine. There are enough Discordian sites that you should find a few pretty easily. -Darkstar |
| Lirix |
posted 05-09-99 05:34 AM ET
So Ronbo ups it to 9 Christians(or are you a Jew?). And I have to count non-practicing since I don't regularly attend any buildings referred to as a church. According to the Bible however, a church is anyplace where My followers gather in worship, or something like that. I'm on the internet, and it never crossed my mind to search for Discordia. Some days... Lirix |
| Lirix |
posted 05-09-99 05:56 AM ET
Hmm, I think I get it. My philosophy on the world has some very close synonyms with Discordia in fact(or theory). "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education. " - Mark Twain Lirix |
| LackOfKnack |
posted 05-09-99 07:29 AM ET
Dim Cat: Exactly! That's exactly what I was going to say. Her agressive personality should have been given to the Spartans. Lack PS What's with everyone's "I think you're all f*cked in the head" Chevy Chase quotes? |
| LackOfKnack |
posted 05-09-99 07:48 AM ET
Lloyd: Stocks? We can talk stocks.... and Snowfire: That's what I meant too. Not accurately portrayed as in an evil corruption of what could have been good. The 60 bases thing is just my experience, yes, the probably have given in one or two times for other people. I can't get them to give in as UoP because UoP can't use the Fundamentalist SE setting. Lack
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| LackOfKnack |
posted 05-09-99 07:49 AM ET
Lloyd: Stocks? We can talk stocks.... and Snowfire: That's what I meant too. Not accurately portrayed as in an evil corruption of what could have been good. The 60 bases thing is just my experience, yes, the probably have given in one or two times for other people. I can't get them to give in as UoP because UoP can't use the Fundamentalist SE setting. Lack The quote: "I made the mistake of letting my schooling interfere with my learning. That's why I am the way I am today. It adds character. Leave me alone!" -Me Naw, I never said that. BTW, Dim Cat's 5-06 post is about a 1/3 of the way down. |
| Jythexinvok |
posted 05-13-99 11:39 PM ET
I think what this realy all comes down to is that they way the believers were designed from an RP perspective, hits a little too close to home for alot of people. All of the factions are designed off some rather flat versions of one group or another, but the believers realy manage to set up a very possible vision of christianity that probably realy frightens some people. Groups like this have existed and gained realy power at some point. The other factions have either been kept in check (Morgan: industry has alwasy had some checks and balances) or too general (the spartans can be linked to any number of historical groups). And in modern day groups like industry have managed to redeam themselves somewhat (outside 3rd world countries at least),.. while the fundementalist still manages to make people nervous. So why do people hate the believers? Because they were well designed from a character perspecitve. Her text was well chosen and her personality well designed. It's the same thing as if they had built a Nazi faction or something else along those lines... |
| HolyWarrior |
posted 05-14-99 03:31 AM ET
Jythexinvok, I consider the Hive nothing more than a Communist faction, and always try to kill them first. If these were [b]Muslim[/b] Fundamentalists instead of [b]Christians[/b], I'd probably hate them too. |
| maestro |
posted 05-14-99 12:09 PM ET
All Hail Discordia! Read your Illuminati. Just to end the guessing. |
| Cadrys |
posted 05-14-99 03:27 PM ET
I've also had the problem with Miriam wigging out (in mid-trade) and going suddenly from 'solicitous' to 'pactbreaking b*tch' in the time it takes to draw a breath. One second she's donating sentinals, the next she's storming the border. WTF? Oh, add 'Wiccan' to your list of belief systems. (Why, yes, I *do* usually play Dierdre. If I ever find myself on the Unity during re-entry, I'm running for her pod, too) |
| Singularity |
posted 05-14-99 08:44 PM ET
Miriam. You could kick in all of her top teeth, surgically remove her jaw, and shove it 3/4 of the way through her head and she would be a supermodel compared to the way she looks now. |
| Krushala |
posted 09-06-99 08:38 PM ET
isn't it obvious |
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