posted 04-28-99 03:16 PM ET     

1) Moral upgrade - there are much better ways to do this.
2) x2 cost to subvert - doesn't seem worth it. They still won't be immune.
3) x2 police powers - again, doesn't seem worth it.
4) Free support - This one can be somewhat useful, but doesn't seem "good enough" to be taking up one of the two SA spots

posted 04-28-99 03:31 PM ET            

Funny, the only special abilities I use are x2 police and no support. The x2 police ability allows me to never have to build anti-drone base facilities, and the no support ability lets me go into full war production without it tapering off as I get more and more units. I don't need the defensive special abilities since if I'm fighting, I'm doing the attacking. Maybe I would use some of the later special abilities, but my games usually end shortly after the discovery of air power.

posted 04-28-99 04:49 PM ET         

"Morale upgrade - there are much better ways to do this."

Untrue, amigo. What if I don't have that critical Command Center or Command Nexus at my fledling base, but still need a unit who's up to speed in morale? Furthmore, it's quite hard to start churning out units fresh as Elite. Slapping High Morale on your backbone units may save you from having to kick into Fundy/Power during war.

"x2 Police powers - again, doesn't seem worth it."

Well, you can remain your tree-hugging, planet-saving, democracy-loving self. I prefer to use Non-Lethal quite liberally. I can turn those regular units into virtual recreation commons. And with a high enough police rating (+3, I believe) I can turn each and every unit into TWO rec commons. If that isn't worth it, buddy, I just don't know what is.

"Free support - This one can be somewhat useful, but doesn't seem "good enough" to be taking up one of two SA spots."

Why are you so concerned about SA spots? I make regular police drones who just have Non-Lethal methods and are there for nothing more than to suppress drones. I think your problem may be that you try to make Uber-Units that do everything.

posted 04-28-99 05:08 PM ET            

Specials I never use tend to be everything else, especially the "x2 to subvert". If I need that, I should be doing something else against Morgan. Like Killer Fodder - Killer Fodder - Basic Defender stacking...

posted 04-28-99 05:54 PM ET            

Non-lethal methods can be useful to any power using several police units, obviously. With that and a +3 police, you can suppress 9 drones.

posted 04-28-99 10:31 PM ET         

I still disagree, while it may be a waste if you're Spartan with Fundy/Power or have the Command Nexus or Cyborg Factory, it is not if you want to keep high morale while still maintaining a (relatively) peaceful SE set.

Also, you are vastly understating the power of morale. While all the morale modifiers up to Commando have a +12.5%, do not forget that when you kick into Elite you get that invaluable +1 movement point.

Also, Doc, I totally disagree about SA spots being precioucs. Mostly because you can make as many unit types as you want. And in actuality, having more units is more efficient (and if I'm not too off, about the same price) than having mega units.

Lots of people like to make AAA Hypno Trance Mega-Armor Infantry. Why? If I get attacked by any one of those three (psi, aircraft or regular,) not all of the special abilities will go into play. And if that one mega-guy dies than I lose the ability to defend against all three. If you make a Hyno Trance Infantry, AAA Infantry and a Mega-Armor Infantry you will have a unit to fight against each one of those threats. If it dies, the defenses against the other types is not compromised. All three have more hitpoints than the one. And are cheaper to make quickly.

Of course, I am highly lenient towards using an excessive component-style play.

Jam:

posted 04-29-99 06:39 AM ET            

AlGoreR: you're right, of course, you must be able to face the higher support costs, maybe not too early in the game.

Clean Reactor: TIs know that this is one cornerstone of "army laundering".

More SA slots? Why don't we ask for maxing all Faction mods in the .txt files? The fun is in choosing the right tradeoff, or the one that fits you, otherwise UW would be really a bore.

How much do you all use artillery? I always keep couple of designs in my portfolio, but never really find the time to actually produce'em, there are always higher priorities pressing. And I use the bombarding embedded in sea units when I can.

I'm trying to make an exhaustive listing of ALL possible units. Something is wrong with the datalinks units cost formula.

posted 04-29-99 06:55 AM ET            

When lauching an assault, if you have a few artillery units to back-up your conventional troops (and I'm talking pre-air-power here), you can really get an edge against a heavily defended enemy base.

In my current Turbaned-Arse game: I'm fighting the Spartans, and want to capture Fort Liberty (why, because it has the Virtual World). Corazon know this of course, and the city is heavily guarded: three 1-3-1 sentinels (hardened), one 6-3-1 infantries (vet), one (6)-1-1 arty and one Missile Interceptor (which does not really matter since my first bomber prototype is only being built now - I stole Air power from her). I have a base not too far away (5 squares, connected by road), and gathered my forces for the assault: 2 elite probes (to destroy the perimeter defense), 4 (6)-1-2*2 arty speeders, 4 6-1-2*2 attack rovers, 2 mind worms (boil level) and 1 backup elite infantry 6-3-1.

My first artillery duelled the Spartan's and destroyed it, then the next three bombarded the city - all defenders were reduced to 50-70% hit points, so my rovers had an easy task destroying them.

And the Virtual World is Mine ! MINE ! Mwuahahahaha ! Next stop: Sparta Command.

Aredhran

posted 04-29-99 10:13 AM ET            

Hey, where's the topic?
what's on that sign? Graceland?

posted 04-29-99 10:26 AM ET            

Chassis type: Forum Poster
Weapon type: keyboard (flames optional)
Armor type: none, asbestos jacket
Reactor type: newbie, vet, great ancient

And the ability: Focus (+1), allows units to stay on thread topic

posted 04-29-99 01:10 PM ET            

But if the Custom Unit Design Workshop was suppose to have been taken from MOO, frankly, I have always FELT that SMAC failed. In MOO, as you advance in Tech, you can pack more into the same space. Instead of a missile battery on that ship, you can pack 3 after a few techs. While I understand that would be a difficult system to use for one that includes infantry, the limiting factor with infantry tends to be weight more than anything else. And since things often get LIGHTER as tech moves on, that infantry gets to be able to pack and carry more gear that still weighs less in total than what the infantry carried 20 or 40 years before.

posted 04-29-99 01:48 PM ET            

Seriously Clean is very good for building an army. If I am in a fight already I will probably skip it to produe the units cheaper/faster so they can get killed cheaper/faster. Police obviously have their benefits (though not in the above FM/W/D society. AAA goes without saying on defense.
For Morgan with a Command Center and Bioenhancement facility and trained units (and a monolith nearby) I have an instant elite army ready to go.

posted 04-29-99 02:40 PM ET         

I would like to let you all know however that I have been working on cost data for different combinations of chassis, weapon, armor, and reactor (but NOT including any special abilities). Here's just one bit I discovered that you may already know:

1) Infantry with the Singularity Engine all cost the same (48) regardless of weapon or armor, except the 24-12-1, which costs 56. So for those of you making garrisons of 1-12-1 thinking it's cheaper, you might as well make 20-12-1 for the same price.

posted 04-29-99 03:03 PM ET            

Three 1-1-highest Police+Trance + one highest-highest-highest AAA+ECM unit ususally form the backbone in my inner cities.
The police+trance units are very cheap and just as effective as anything vs. worms which are the bigest threat to my inner cities and the AAA+ECM unit can usually handle whatever the other factions can sneak through my outer defences.
(The high movement ate makes my defence very flexible in case something goes WRONG

I also build a bunch of clean super formers as soon as they become available.

Moral Upgrade: As mentioned earlier in this thread MU is invaulable in the early game when no other worthwhile SA's are available and more or less a must in muchos worm games.

x2 subversion: Never

SAM: This one pretty much depends on what strategy my enemies use, a couple a SAM Copters never hurts though.

Empath: Never

Carrier: Depends on the map.

Sub: Never in SP games, the bloody cheating AI has a nice habit of moving through exactly the square my sub is in...go figure...

Drop Pods: YA!

posted 04-29-99 09:20 PM ET         

I use Artillery, but not like most people. Instead I like to make armored infantry artillery (with Drop Pods when available.)

The premise is pretty simple, you slip them into a newly conquered base and start shooting at enemy units that try to get back in. Works well, especially since the AI tends to turn heavily injured units back to home.

Jam:

When you can crank out those super-dee-ooper units you don't need to use interesting tactics, brute force will provide. But the 'transformer' technique is useful in many ways. Primarily, your opponent can't really tell what you're going to turn them into until it's too late. Which gives you great counter possibilities. Plus, units can upgrade in a turn. While it can take many turns to churn out the same unit. Best of all, if you get one of my personal favorite SPs (the Nano Factory) upgrading a unit costs LESS than buying that same unit. Neat, huh?

All:

posted 04-30-99 09:11 AM ET         

I don't feel bad for the AI, I merely feel that choppers are too effective, and worse yet, they tend to overshadow virtually all other forms of assault.

Needlejets, Gravships, Land-Assault Rovers, Hovertanks, who cares? My Choppers can out show them all.

A great example here is Holywarrior who just happened to come in (sorry, Holy, just going to use you as an example.) "Air power wins the game." This is sadly true, even when you're not facing the enemy over great distances, Choppers can outpreform land units, sea units and fellow air units.

I like my games where a good show of tactics is the key, not a swarm of 'Choppers.