posted 04-30-99 06:49 PM ET        

I and many others consistently get a fatal crash when saving and exiting a PBEM or hotseat game. It's happened to me three or more times.

Thankfully, the .SAV files do not get corrupted or it would be a _REAL_ problem and you'd hear a lot more about it.

Also, it is very discouraging to keep hearing this as a stock response. At least Activision had the guts to post their bug and feature enhancement list for _THEIR_ upcoming patch, as well as a projected availability date. They did it both on their web site and in the forums at Apolyton.

Your response only confirms what many of us have only suspected until now. Since there are no more "show-stopper" bugs (at least from the perspective of Firaxis), then a patch to fix all of the other problems won't be out "anytime soon."

FYI, I told a friend of mine in the business (at a notable game company) about some of the bugs still existing after the second patch. He couldn't believe that any game company in their right mind would let something like that out the door in a patch. He understood if they were there and not found before a production run, but how could they get out the door in the _SECOND_ patch?

I still love the game and Firaxis, but Puhleeez take us true believers into account. We don't like having to make excuses for why we put up with the bugs and crashes anymore.

posted 04-30-99 07:26 PM ET            

I think Jeff was being quite reasonable when he said not to expect the 4.0 patch soon. They just released the German 3.0 patch, and with the lag time they have had internationalizing (called localizing, strangely enough) and basic testing to make sure someone didn't delete any odd bits and make CHOPPERS unlimited by mistake, I wouldn't be surprised at all. They don't want the US on Patch 4 and have the continent on Patch 2. They still have one or two languages to go to get everyone at rev 3 the last time I looked...

Also, I am betting most of the behavior bugs are in the AI code Brian wrote. As he is now on other things, someone at Firaxis is having to learn the object and code set-up to go hunt those pesky bugs like Unlimited Range Missiles, building sensors on water and in lava craters, etc etc etc. As a rule, noone but the project lead debugs the project lead's code in most places. Its not pride so much as resources (no one else available) so they don't have anyone trained and up to speed.

Additionally, this will PROBABLY be the last patch unless we customers scream our bloody heads off afterward. What with the Priority being SMAC X, Sid's new Project, and the forming of a new Development team, they don't have the resources. Jeff probably has one or two people tops to crawl through the code to correct things.

As far as fatal crashes, I have suddenly been having the same thing happen on save/exit. So there is definately something strange that has been executed in the code that I don't normally happen as this is a new thing for me. (Just this week or so!) I have had the Demo, 1.0 and 2.0 lock up after 10 to 14 hours of play, but those were rare (the lock ups).

You'll have to play the config game for a little while and let them TRY to reproduce it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The most common thing we have heard is "Its your hardware/configuration!" I know that's true a lot of the time, but its not true ALL the time. And when its hardware/config, it should happen ALL the time for those people...

posted 04-30-99 08:18 PM ET            

Sure it's understandable what he says. I realize they have two more languages to go. I also realize that, presently, this seems to be the sole development effort being devoted to SMAC. What I see is one guy (or perhaps even a 3rd party) working solo on the SMAC L18N and I18N. That would explain why that is dragging on.

My point is this:

Was the decision to "back-burner" the V4.0 patch a reasonable course of action for Firaxis to take in the first place? The answer to that is a firm -- NO!

Sure they have limited resources. All the more reason to focus them on improving the quality of their tarnished product while they can _BEFORE_ they move on to bigger, better, newer things. Developers are extremely reluctant to go back to projects once they move on to new things. Let's also not forget that said developer's memory of what they produced fades over time.

Yes, they are a small shop, but that means your argument about BR's availability in a primary role as a large consideration just doesn't wash. Someone assigned to chase bugs in his code should have considerable access to BR, one would think. And if he/she does have access to BR, and they aren't productive, then perhaps it's time to consider someone else for the job?

I've just started using the Scenario Editor and the number of blatantly obvious bugs are considerable! No crashes so far. Not to mention the usability of the S.E. is atrocious. Why they have a nice right click scheme in the game and a function key/double menu system in the S.E. is beyond me.

The bottom line:

I don't think Firaxis even has a person currently assigned to looking into the myriad problems, bugs, annoyances (major and minor) that have been posted in this forum and elsewhere on alpha.owo.com.

The fact that they can't even commit to even a short list of fixes and a general timeframe of delivery only underscores my suspicions in this area.

Thankfully, Jeff let the "cat out of the bag" with his "not anytime soon" remark.

Now people like me who thought that Firaxis was actually paying attention, and that they were motivated to produce another patch in a timely fashion know better and can quit fooling themselves.

posted 04-30-99 08:44 PM ET            

Firaxis still has a team of 5 or so people working just on SMAC. Patch 4.0 is scheduled to release well in advance of SMACX--but that's not really being very specific, I realize.

Many or all of the verifiable bugs on the list I sent have already been fixed, including the missle bug. Features are being put in SMACX. As Darkstar said, the missle problem in particular HAD to go through Brian because the code is his, so it takes a while to go through the loop. As of late, the Firaxis team in general has been working 14-18 hour days trying to handle all the increased work load from new projects, patches, etc.

That's why they put the "We're Hiring" sign on the window.

However, NONE OF THAT IS ANY EXCUSE TO LEAVE YOUR CUSTOMERS IN THE DARK, FIRAXIS! It's just sad and silly that most simple thing--keeping us updated--are being ignored. Why Firaxis wants to shoot its own ass is beyond me.

An uninformed customer will always assume the worse. Firaxis: You're breeding your own problems in the fertile soil of silence. (oooh, the poetry )

posted 04-30-99 10:32 PM ET            

If you are privy to this information, why isn't someone official from Firaxis making these statements?

Also, if the Missile Bug is fixed, did they really fix it that fast?

It was only a little while ago that they posted their skepticism about it's continued existence. So SMACers diligently proved it to them in a manner that would have been obvious to any knowledgable gamer (let alone a game programmer, or a SMAC QA person). Open the Scenario Editor, plop down some bases and units and let it fly.

Pardon me, but --- DUH!

Why is this stuff so hard?

You may believe that they have all of these resources working on fixing SMAC, I find it hard to swallow. Especially considering the fact that a Firaxis employee in a recent chat had to leave because their regular gaming session (of a competitors game) was about to begin. Perhaps they could be working on _SMACX_, but that still leaves the question unanswered as to why they pushed the patch to the background.

Also, I think the key to your post is the word "verifiable". It should read "verified". If it took gamers to reproduce the missile bug (in a totally obvious way), how many other bugs are being ignored because they could not be "verified"?

Heck, Yin, you, me and a host of others would be more than willing to beta test their patch and rip the shreds out of it to see if it passes muster. Firaxis is silent.

And yes, I would be happy to take some of their "unverified" bug list and work on reproducing them. As long as I get to see the ones they already verified and have fixed.

Why is it so hard to post a list? It isn't. Even Activision was able to do it. To me, there has to be a reason. What could it be? They enjoy tormenting us? They think we would rant and rave about the list? Get real!

I stand by my suspicions: Firaxis doesn't have any significant resources devoted to the next patch.

Once again ...

posted 04-30-99 11:12 PM ET         

If they are, then they also know [being good marketeers] that NObody who has SMAC w/ problems is gonna touch SMACX unless the bugz is killed. 4.0, or 9.9, who cares.

I've worked in small production shops, and it's kinda hard, sometimes to justify "taking the time" to keep the client informed about where the project is. But... that kind of thinking is ALWAYS wrong. Left to their (our!) own thoughts, we think you're ignoring the issue.

Dont say "wont be anytime soon" .. say instead: "after we get the other languages done" or "we're partly done, but having problems with some of the issues" .. or WHATEVER it really is.

posted 05-01-99 02:36 PM ET            

About patch 4.0, let me again clarify. If I had to guess, I'd say all code work for patch 4.0 could be complete in about a month. What will most likely delay it's release however is a simultaneous language release (which for smac means English/French/German/Spanish/Italian). As our European customers can attest, these additional patches can date some time to get signed off.

If there is anything else I can clarify, please let me know. Firaxis takes great pride in it's customer support, as do I. This forum is one such element of that pride, as is the ease with which you can contact me ([email protected]). Please take advantage of these methods and let your voice be heard!

jkm