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Author Topic:   Vendettas? (help Firaxis employees)

LocustOfChiron posted 04-30-99 10:31 AM ET
I can never declare a vendetta on an enemy faction. I have to either break a treaty and get my honor rating damaged or wait until they declare vendetta on me. Any way to get around this? I would suggest that the chat screen include a "Declare Vendetta" button in the next patch.
R A Spottiswood posted 04-30-99 09:27 PM ET
That is not a bug, it is part of the game. You cannot attack someone without what the computer considers provocation without your integrity being damaged. Also, if you just declared Vendetta during diplomacy without provocation that would (should) also damage your integrity. The whole point is that you either have to lose integrity or maneuver your enemies into declaring Vendetta -- you cannot simply make and break treaties with impunity.
RAS
LocustOfChiron posted 05-01-99 02:32 PM ET
Why can't I change my diplomatic status whenever I want if the computer can?
Dick Knisely posted 05-03-99 05:08 PM ET
Maybe I missed something, but what makes you think the computer can? Like them, you can break a treaty or pact any time you want. And they'll remember that fact. Your reputation is just feedback to you on how the AI is likely to see you.
If they break one with you, I assume you'd remember that and be wary of trusting them. If they break one with you or another faction I'm fairly sure it will be kept track of -- turn on the scenario editor and go in to edit faction diplomacy. There's a spot in there for a numerical evaluation of reputation. The computer factions have reputations just as you do. I can't verify 100% that the AI code uses these in the AI-faction to AI-faction diplomacy, but I'd bet that it does.
HolyWarrior posted 05-22-99 11:11 PM ET
Just tell the faction to give you research or you'll "squash 'em like a bug". I find that usually works.
Bad Explanation posted 05-23-99 11:56 AM ET
You can also right-click on their name, in the commlink, and demand that they withdraw troops. Do it again and again, and they'll usually get pissed and declare Vendetta. I believe, in fact, although I'm not sure, that any time they ask you to remove troops, you get the opportunity to declare Vendetta. However, the computer does have much more freedom to declare war than the human; the computer can declare Vendetta, it seems, almost any time you refuse one of its requests. "You won't give me 3000 credits for my map data? Vendetta on you!" The human player can ask for whatever they want, but when they're refused, they don't get an option to declare war.
Rackam posted 05-23-99 02:02 PM ET
I had a similiar thing happen. I had some believer troops hanging around my bases, but as I was at truce, I couldn't get rid of them without starting a war, and I couldn't get her to remove them either. At the time I didn't need a war with her since at the time, the Believers were the only faction I was still at peace with.
MichaeltheGreat posted 05-25-99 11:19 PM ET
That is a problem in the game design - in a truce, all units should be backed off to the closest point within their own territory, and if they encroach back into your territory, you should be able to ask nicely, then send 'em to hell with diplomatic impunity if the other side doesn't comply - the same if the AI asks you to leave. In fact, if a party violates a truce, perhaps it would be appropriate for the UN to vote on economic sanctions? Generally we tolerate less from scumbag regimes like Iraq and North Korea, due to their aggression. That would also tend to make warfare more interesting, if you could exploit the UN to cut off trade and damage your enemy economically.
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Author	Topic: Vendettas? (help Firaxis employees)
LocustOfChiron	posted 04-30-99 10:31 AM ET I can never declare a vendetta on an enemy faction. I have to either break a treaty and get my honor rating damaged or wait until they declare vendetta on me. Any way to get around this? I would suggest that the chat screen include a "Declare Vendetta" button in the next patch.
R A Spottiswood	posted 04-30-99 09:27 PM ET That is not a bug, it is part of the game. You cannot attack someone without what the computer considers provocation without your integrity being damaged. Also, if you just declared Vendetta during diplomacy without provocation that would (should) also damage your integrity. The whole point is that you either have to lose integrity or maneuver your enemies into declaring Vendetta -- you cannot simply make and break treaties with impunity. RAS
LocustOfChiron	posted 05-01-99 02:32 PM ET Why can't I change my diplomatic status whenever I want if the computer can?
Dick Knisely	posted 05-03-99 05:08 PM ET Maybe I missed something, but what makes you think the computer can? Like them, you can break a treaty or pact any time you want. And they'll remember that fact. Your reputation is just feedback to you on how the AI is likely to see you. If they break one with you, I assume you'd remember that and be wary of trusting them. If they break one with you or another faction I'm fairly sure it will be kept track of -- turn on the scenario editor and go in to edit faction diplomacy. There's a spot in there for a numerical evaluation of reputation. The computer factions have reputations just as you do. I can't verify 100% that the AI code uses these in the AI-faction to AI-faction diplomacy, but I'd bet that it does.
HolyWarrior	posted 05-22-99 11:11 PM ET Just tell the faction to give you research or you'll "squash 'em like a bug". I find that usually works.
Bad Explanation	posted 05-23-99 11:56 AM ET You can also right-click on their name, in the commlink, and demand that they withdraw troops. Do it again and again, and they'll usually get pissed and declare Vendetta. I believe, in fact, although I'm not sure, that any time they ask you to remove troops, you get the opportunity to declare Vendetta. However, the computer does have much more freedom to declare war than the human; the computer can declare Vendetta, it seems, almost any time you refuse one of its requests. "You won't give me 3000 credits for my map data? Vendetta on you!" The human player can ask for whatever they want, but when they're refused, they don't get an option to declare war.
Rackam	posted 05-23-99 02:02 PM ET I had a similiar thing happen. I had some believer troops hanging around my bases, but as I was at truce, I couldn't get rid of them without starting a war, and I couldn't get her to remove them either. At the time I didn't need a war with her since at the time, the Believers were the only faction I was still at peace with.
MichaeltheGreat	posted 05-25-99 11:19 PM ET That is a problem in the game design - in a truce, all units should be backed off to the closest point within their own territory, and if they encroach back into your territory, you should be able to ask nicely, then send 'em to hell with diplomatic impunity if the other side doesn't comply - the same if the AI asks you to leave. In fact, if a party violates a truce, perhaps it would be appropriate for the UN to vote on economic sanctions? Generally we tolerate less from scumbag regimes like Iraq and North Korea, due to their aggression. That would also tend to make warfare more interesting, if you could exploit the UN to cut off trade and damage your enemy economically.