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Author Topic:   Patch 3.0's ecodamage break

Oleg Leschoff posted 03-28-99 05:06 AM ET
It seems that the new patch has changed some very vital (for gameplay) part of the game -- ecodamage calculations.
Currently I am playing Transcendant game and I have noticed that ecodamage appears just behind 16 minerals production at the city. Before this patch, as I remember, I could build Centauri Preserve to eliminate it, and the it appeared somewhere near 30 minerals. Now I really don't see any effect of CP and other such facilities, thay are practically useless, because I always keep bases without ecodamage, and after new patch installed ED always appears after 16 or 17 minerals.
So it seems that new patch rendered Centauri Preserve and Temple of Planet, and somewhat Pholus Mutagen and some other facilities, obsolette.
The bad thing is that sometimes from the mid-game I am planting forests everywhere (including rocky squares) and building Tree Farm and Hybrid Forest, thus making forests best improvement. BUT I just can't use them! Just the city grows behind size of 10 it becomes ineffective because I can use only 7 or 8 squares, after which I have to make citizens thinkers or something else, and a great number of resources (energy first of all) at city square are wasted.
Maybe somewhere in the Alpha.txt there option to correct this?
PhysicsMan posted 03-28-99 07:39 PM ET
I use the same strategy as you do. According to the ecological damage formula (under advanced concepts in the DataLinks) you should be able to completely eliminate ecological damage with a PLANET rating of +3 or greater. However, this doesn't work either. I have also used the formula to calculate what the ecodamage should be for a given base. The results of the calculation DO NOT match the results showing in a game. The formula doesn't appear in the alpha.txt file either; leading me to believe the ecodamage formula is in the game code. I hope someone from firaxis will answer this problem of runaway ecodamage soon!!!
Oleg Leschoff posted 03-29-99 03:11 AM ET
Yeah, I remember those 100+ minerals at bases without ecodamage... I guess I'll have to reinstall the game and play with patch 2.0.
Aillas posted 03-29-99 09:54 AM ET
In my current Talent-level game, I own all of the Special Projects that affect ecological damage. My SE is Democracy/Green/Knowledge/Cybernetic (guess which faction :-)), for a Planet rating of +4. If I build all three eco improvements (Centauri Preserve, Temple of Planet, Nanofabrication facility) at a base, I can support ~80 minerals with zero eco-damage. At 125 minerals, eco-damage is 25, at which point I might as well hang out a sign that says "Come and get it".
Just another data point...
Oleg Leschoff posted 03-29-99 12:39 PM ET
I am not sure, but I've tested it on some lower difficulty level, and I think ED was somewhat less, but not so much. As I said, before Patch 3.0 (with 2.0 or without patches) it was just fine, I had a 125 minerals bases with no ecodamage in the end of game. Now, with 3.0 enh. it's inpossible.
quizara tafwid posted 03-29-99 01:17 PM ET
Under v3.0 Temple of Planet seems to eliminate all eco-damage. I haven't noticed any unusual eco-damage as long as mineral production is kept under 3 per population (rule of thumb). So for a 40 pop base, you should be able to avoid eco-damage if you keep it under 120.
Since I like to turn the continent I'm on into one big forest (even leveling rocky terrain so forests will grow on it), I find it helpful to build my cities on the coast and terraform the ocean shelfs into kelp with solar collectors so I can keep my people busy, rather than making them all specialists to prevent eco-damage (and knock down 6K energy per turn).
Another way to prevent too much mineral production is to build supply crawlers to collect nutrients or energy from base squares that you don't have workers on. This will also prevent new growth workers from creating eco-damage so you don't have to keep checking your 40+ bases each turn for new eco-damage.
Aillas posted 03-29-99 03:57 PM ET
qizara tafwid,
You wrote:<i>
Under v3.0 Temple of Planet seems to eliminate all eco-damage. I haven't noticed any unusual eco-damage as long as mineral production is kept under 3 per population (rule of thumb). So for a 40 pop base, you should be able to avoid eco-damage if you keep it under 120.</i>
I'm playing v3.0, and as I said above, even with both Centauri Preserve and Temple of Planet I get unavoidable and rapidly-increasing eco-damage after about 80 minerals. That's at a base with no improvements, too -- I'm only using the 2/3/3 production I get from fungus.
weregamer posted 03-29-99 05:32 PM ET
I ran into this problem too. Specifically, I ru$h-built a Centauri Preserve because my base (with Hybrid Forest) was showing eco-damage with only 30-ish minerals. This had NO effect on eco-damage.
I haven't watched Temples of Planet closely, to see if they have stopped working or perhaps now work infinitely well. (It *is* nice to be able to build them before VoP, though!)
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Author	Topic: Patch 3.0's ecodamage break
Oleg Leschoff	posted 03-28-99 05:06 AM ET It seems that the new patch has changed some very vital (for gameplay) part of the game -- ecodamage calculations. Currently I am playing Transcendant game and I have noticed that ecodamage appears just behind 16 minerals production at the city. Before this patch, as I remember, I could build Centauri Preserve to eliminate it, and the it appeared somewhere near 30 minerals. Now I really don't see any effect of CP and other such facilities, thay are practically useless, because I always keep bases without ecodamage, and after new patch installed ED always appears after 16 or 17 minerals. So it seems that new patch rendered Centauri Preserve and Temple of Planet, and somewhat Pholus Mutagen and some other facilities, obsolette. The bad thing is that sometimes from the mid-game I am planting forests everywhere (including rocky squares) and building Tree Farm and Hybrid Forest, thus making forests best improvement. BUT I just can't use them! Just the city grows behind size of 10 it becomes ineffective because I can use only 7 or 8 squares, after which I have to make citizens thinkers or something else, and a great number of resources (energy first of all) at city square are wasted. Maybe somewhere in the Alpha.txt there option to correct this?
PhysicsMan	posted 03-28-99 07:39 PM ET I use the same strategy as you do. According to the ecological damage formula (under advanced concepts in the DataLinks) you should be able to completely eliminate ecological damage with a PLANET rating of +3 or greater. However, this doesn't work either. I have also used the formula to calculate what the ecodamage should be for a given base. The results of the calculation DO NOT match the results showing in a game. The formula doesn't appear in the alpha.txt file either; leading me to believe the ecodamage formula is in the game code. I hope someone from firaxis will answer this problem of runaway ecodamage soon!!!
Oleg Leschoff	posted 03-29-99 03:11 AM ET Yeah, I remember those 100+ minerals at bases without ecodamage... I guess I'll have to reinstall the game and play with patch 2.0.
Aillas	posted 03-29-99 09:54 AM ET In my current Talent-level game, I own all of the Special Projects that affect ecological damage. My SE is Democracy/Green/Knowledge/Cybernetic (guess which faction :-)), for a Planet rating of +4. If I build all three eco improvements (Centauri Preserve, Temple of Planet, Nanofabrication facility) at a base, I can support ~80 minerals with zero eco-damage. At 125 minerals, eco-damage is 25, at which point I might as well hang out a sign that says "Come and get it". Just another data point...
Oleg Leschoff	posted 03-29-99 12:39 PM ET I am not sure, but I've tested it on some lower difficulty level, and I think ED was somewhat less, but not so much. As I said, before Patch 3.0 (with 2.0 or without patches) it was just fine, I had a 125 minerals bases with no ecodamage in the end of game. Now, with 3.0 enh. it's inpossible.
quizara tafwid	posted 03-29-99 01:17 PM ET Under v3.0 Temple of Planet seems to eliminate all eco-damage. I haven't noticed any unusual eco-damage as long as mineral production is kept under 3 per population (rule of thumb). So for a 40 pop base, you should be able to avoid eco-damage if you keep it under 120. Since I like to turn the continent I'm on into one big forest (even leveling rocky terrain so forests will grow on it), I find it helpful to build my cities on the coast and terraform the ocean shelfs into kelp with solar collectors so I can keep my people busy, rather than making them all specialists to prevent eco-damage (and knock down 6K energy per turn). Another way to prevent too much mineral production is to build supply crawlers to collect nutrients or energy from base squares that you don't have workers on. This will also prevent new growth workers from creating eco-damage so you don't have to keep checking your 40+ bases each turn for new eco-damage.
Aillas	posted 03-29-99 03:57 PM ET qizara tafwid, You wrote:<i> Under v3.0 Temple of Planet seems to eliminate all eco-damage. I haven't noticed any unusual eco-damage as long as mineral production is kept under 3 per population (rule of thumb). So for a 40 pop base, you should be able to avoid eco-damage if you keep it under 120.</i> I'm playing v3.0, and as I said above, even with both Centauri Preserve and Temple of Planet I get unavoidable and rapidly-increasing eco-damage after about 80 minerals. That's at a base with no improvements, too -- I'm only using the 2/3/3 production I get from fungus.
weregamer	posted 03-29-99 05:32 PM ET I ran into this problem too. Specifically, I ru$h-built a Centauri Preserve because my base (with Hybrid Forest) was showing eco-damage with only 30-ish minerals. This had NO effect on eco-damage. I haven't watched Temples of Planet closely, to see if they have stopped working or perhaps now work infinitely well. (It is nice to be able to build them before VoP, though!)