Buggy Patch! Sloppy guys, real sloppy.

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Author Topic:   Buggy Patch! Sloppy guys, real sloppy.

Praetor posted 03-21-99 02:32 PM ET
I'm not sure what is up with you guys, but the patch needs patching.
After waiting patiently for the v3.0 patch to come out, and installing it after so much anticipation, I _still_ have the same problem.
The enemy's Conventional Missiles are _still_ hitting my cities half a world away!! Your patch is supposed to fix range checking for enemy PBs, but shouldn't you have checked for Conventional Missiles as well? What gives? What kind of sloppiness _is_ this?!
I can't believe this is a _very_ hard thing to program. I mean, range-checking is already an intrinsic part of the program. What possible excuse could you have for such a blatant oversight?
Cedronian posted 03-21-99 03:26 PM ET
Are you sure the AI doesn`t uses it`s allies cities to move the missiles? Maybe he uses them as refueling bases to get to your bases? Just an idea.
//Ced
Praetor posted 03-21-99 04:34 PM ET
Nope... the nearest cities are owned by a vendetta'ed faction. I checked, using my probes. I even swept the place for carriers.
As a last resort, I activated the scenario editor to check the map and faction status.
I think I've covered pretty much everything.
LordEmrys posted 03-22-99 09:40 AM ET
What is sloppy is your disrespect for the hard work that Firaxis is putting in to listening and working on your complaints and suggestions. They don't have to gratefully send out patches every so many weeks just to fix every small bug, much less listen to you gripe and throw pot shots at them. If you have a responsible comment to make, make it. Don't bring in crud from outside in here, especially when this company does more faster than almost any other game company out there. Remember, you get what you give. You want help, then be helpful...
All this world needs is a little more patience and a lot more respect
Praetor posted 03-22-99 11:48 AM ET
My dear LordEmrys, perhaps you did not bother to read my post thoroughly before mouthing off. Well, there goes your argument for respecrt, right out the window.
Taking time to bring out a patch is one thing. I _did_ wait, patiently, without complaint, for this latest patch.
But when you _say_ in your readme file that you fixed something, when in fact you have not, that _is_ sloppy. This is _not_ a "small bug". It is something that throws the game balance off. It is _also_ something that was highlighted way before v3.0 came out. In fact, Brian Reynolds himself mentioned that "he left it out", and that "it would be addressed in the next patch", meaning v3.0
BTW, I _was_ helpful the first time I reported this bug. I tried to give as much detail as possible, short of sending them a save game, since they did not bother to even reply my post, let alone ask for my save.
Perhaps if you weren't so sloppy in your outrage and took the time actually read my complaint, you would appear less hypocritical when you call for "patience and respect".
LordEmrys posted 03-23-99 09:26 PM ET
Praetor your ignorance is unseemly. Get a life, play the game, quit griping. Live in the real world. Read what I said. I say nothing in outrage. The only outrage is your total lack of respect for those working here and working on the patches. They take their time to do something for you, yet you sit here on your butt with your smug attitude expecting them to spoon feed you everything.
They owe you nothing. You owe them, don't forget that.
Praetor posted 03-23-99 10:03 PM ET
Bah! "Lord" indeed!
"The only outrage is your total lack of respect..." blah blah blah.
Obviously, you _are_ outraged about something.
If you cannot properly address my arguments, and cannot help contradicting yourself, then your post is just so much spam.
Now let me address _your_ arguments. They _do_ owe us something. They owe is a properly patched game for the money I gave them. I _would_ owe them some respect, if their patch did what it was _supposed_ to do. But it doesn't, so I don't.
BTW, expect them to "spoonfeed" me nothing. I would change the range checking myself, if I knew how. That is _not_ common knowledge.
I expect that your next post will deftly sidestep the problem at hand go on ranting about how "unhelpful" and "disresepctful" I am.
I mean, why address my comments in any coherent and logical manner, when simple insults will do, right?
Gamelion posted 03-23-99 10:11 PM ET
LordEmrys! When I buy a game, I do it with the expectation that it is bugfree. IF for some reason the game is not bugfree I think the company OWE me a patch for it.
Don't get me wrong. I think Firaxis is doing fairly well (far better then many other companies) in their support, at least for you US customers. They can work a little more on the support for us in europe
LordEmrys posted 03-24-99 06:46 PM ET
Praetor look at your original heading to this post. That is lack of respect. Your right, you don't know how to change the range checking that is why 'they' are paid that much to do it. Also you bought the game...you get what you pay for. Go back to Entertainment systems...there you never get bug patches. At least here they work their butts off to fix bugs. Almost every other game company takes months to get the first patch out. Be glad firaxis has taken this time to make 3. The only thing I'm upset about is people like you and others that just 'expect' companies to take time out of other important projects to listen to all these complaints and have to take the abuse with them that they don't deserve. Programming all this stuff is hard, making it bug-free is impossible. Never expect something to be bug-free, it is simply impossible. You guys need to learn to take what you can get, and if something doesn't work figure something around it. Learn to play better and let them do their work. You have not been waiting patiently at all...it has been barely any time wince AC has come out in the game world. Pipe down and let them do their job. You people make me and all the other responsible and serious gamers sick with stupid and uncalled for slander. Deal with it and adapt.
Flash posted 03-24-99 07:09 PM ET
LordEmrys-> I hate it when people start blaming the people playing a game for the problems with the game. "YOU'VE BEEN PLAYING IT WRONG. THAT'S WHY IT CRASHED. OF COURSE YOU LOOSE ALL YOUR SAVED GAMES IF YOU CLICK A SWAMP ON TURN 2000. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?"
Games crash because of poor programming. Particularly a game like this one that doesn't need to use the most recent advances in VOODOO chips.
Praetor posted 03-25-99 01:14 AM ET
*sigh*
I agree that SMAC is a complicated game to program, simply because of the sheer number of variables that must be handled.
However, the way Brian Reynolds talked of this bug about a month ago, made it seem easy, trivial even, to get rid of. He said that he simply "... left it out."
In addition, range checking for _all_ units is already in the game. We're not talking about implementing a whole new code here.
Now, I do have respect for programmers of any kind of software. Having programmed some nickel and dime stuff before, I do realise that a commercial software release is a _major_ undertaking. And I've given them the highest form of respect I can; I've bought and stuck with their game since day one.
But, even the best screw up sometimes. Does that mean we should just overlook it? Are they permitted to be above the law, so to speak, because they've done really good stuff?
I personally don't think so. I give respect where it is due, but I also call out any sloppiness.
TheUnforgiven posted 03-26-99 01:35 PM ET
There is range checking with missiles in v3.0 (I've checked, although it is extremly long, the missiles will blow up after they go so far).
Flash, how many possible system configurations are they? Billions, if not trillions. It is impossible for a group of programmers to test a game on all of the possible system configs. That is where some of the problems lie, not because of bad programming. That is also where most of their attention lies, getting it working on those systems that are having problems (the K6's now, I think), not fixing some minor range checking bug.
Oh, and the latest technology in Voodoo chips is about a year and a half behind the latest technology in the Riva chips.. ;P
Gamelion, grow up, there are more people in this world than just you. Just because you're not satisfied w/ how a given point in the game works, then take it back. Don't expect a patch changing it just because YOU want it to be changed.
-- TheUnforgiven
oOttOo posted 03-27-99 01:06 AM ET
I have had a small problem with the patch. When "Drone Riots" and "Construction Complete" is announced, and there happens to be more than one announcement at a time, the game kinda slurs them all together. I don't think this was present in the previous patch. I don't say this to be nitpicky, because I can live with it, but in case it's easy to fix, it's something to think about for a future patch. Thanks for a great game!
oOttOo posted 03-27-99 01:09 AM ET
Oh yeah...I was _so_ impressed by the _complete_ overuse of these _lame_ emphasis indicators that I just _had_ to try it myself. Am I _half_ as cool as others that _totally_ run it into the _freaking_ ground?

Corwin posted 03-27-99 10:58 AM ET
Someone said that sometimes the patch wouldn't work if installed over other patches, so you should try to reinstall the game and then install the patch to check if that helps.
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Author	Topic: Buggy Patch! Sloppy guys, real sloppy.
Praetor	posted 03-21-99 02:32 PM ET I'm not sure what is up with you guys, but the patch needs patching. After waiting patiently for the v3.0 patch to come out, and installing it after so much anticipation, I _still_ have the same problem. The enemy's Conventional Missiles are _still_ hitting my cities half a world away!! Your patch is supposed to fix range checking for enemy PBs, but shouldn't you have checked for Conventional Missiles as well? What gives? What kind of sloppiness _is_ this?! I can't believe this is a _very_ hard thing to program. I mean, range-checking is already an intrinsic part of the program. What possible excuse could you have for such a blatant oversight?
Cedronian	posted 03-21-99 03:26 PM ET Are you sure the AI doesn`t uses it`s allies cities to move the missiles? Maybe he uses them as refueling bases to get to your bases? Just an idea. //Ced
Praetor	posted 03-21-99 04:34 PM ET Nope... the nearest cities are owned by a vendetta'ed faction. I checked, using my probes. I even swept the place for carriers. As a last resort, I activated the scenario editor to check the map and faction status. I think I've covered pretty much everything.
LordEmrys	posted 03-22-99 09:40 AM ET What is sloppy is your disrespect for the hard work that Firaxis is putting in to listening and working on your complaints and suggestions. They don't have to gratefully send out patches every so many weeks just to fix every small bug, much less listen to you gripe and throw pot shots at them. If you have a responsible comment to make, make it. Don't bring in crud from outside in here, especially when this company does more faster than almost any other game company out there. Remember, you get what you give. You want help, then be helpful... All this world needs is a little more patience and a lot more respect
Praetor	posted 03-22-99 11:48 AM ET My dear LordEmrys, perhaps you did not bother to read my post thoroughly before mouthing off. Well, there goes your argument for respecrt, right out the window. Taking time to bring out a patch is one thing. I _did_ wait, patiently, without complaint, for this latest patch. But when you _say_ in your readme file that you fixed something, when in fact you have not, that _is_ sloppy. This is _not_ a "small bug". It is something that throws the game balance off. It is _also_ something that was highlighted way before v3.0 came out. In fact, Brian Reynolds himself mentioned that "he left it out", and that "it would be addressed in the next patch", meaning v3.0 BTW, I _was_ helpful the first time I reported this bug. I tried to give as much detail as possible, short of sending them a save game, since they did not bother to even reply my post, let alone ask for my save. Perhaps if you weren't so sloppy in your outrage and took the time actually read my complaint, you would appear less hypocritical when you call for "patience and respect".
LordEmrys	posted 03-23-99 09:26 PM ET Praetor your ignorance is unseemly. Get a life, play the game, quit griping. Live in the real world. Read what I said. I say nothing in outrage. The only outrage is your total lack of respect for those working here and working on the patches. They take their time to do something for you, yet you sit here on your butt with your smug attitude expecting them to spoon feed you everything. They owe you nothing. You owe them, don't forget that.
Praetor	posted 03-23-99 10:03 PM ET Bah! "Lord" indeed! "The only outrage is your total lack of respect..." blah blah blah. Obviously, you _are_ outraged about something. If you cannot properly address my arguments, and cannot help contradicting yourself, then your post is just so much spam. Now let me address _your_ arguments. They _do_ owe us something. They owe is a properly patched game for the money I gave them. I _would_ owe them some respect, if their patch did what it was _supposed_ to do. But it doesn't, so I don't. BTW, expect them to "spoonfeed" me nothing. I would change the range checking myself, if I knew how. That is _not_ common knowledge. I expect that your next post will deftly sidestep the problem at hand go on ranting about how "unhelpful" and "disresepctful" I am. I mean, why address my comments in any coherent and logical manner, when simple insults will do, right?
Gamelion	posted 03-23-99 10:11 PM ET LordEmrys! When I buy a game, I do it with the expectation that it is bugfree. IF for some reason the game is not bugfree I think the company OWE me a patch for it. Don't get me wrong. I think Firaxis is doing fairly well (far better then many other companies) in their support, at least for you US customers. They can work a little more on the support for us in europe
LordEmrys	posted 03-24-99 06:46 PM ET Praetor look at your original heading to this post. That is lack of respect. Your right, you don't know how to change the range checking that is why 'they' are paid that much to do it. Also you bought the game...you get what you pay for. Go back to Entertainment systems...there you never get bug patches. At least here they work their butts off to fix bugs. Almost every other game company takes months to get the first patch out. Be glad firaxis has taken this time to make 3. The only thing I'm upset about is people like you and others that just 'expect' companies to take time out of other important projects to listen to all these complaints and have to take the abuse with them that they don't deserve. Programming all this stuff is hard, making it bug-free is impossible. Never expect something to be bug-free, it is simply impossible. You guys need to learn to take what you can get, and if something doesn't work figure something around it. Learn to play better and let them do their work. You have not been waiting patiently at all...it has been barely any time wince AC has come out in the game world. Pipe down and let them do their job. You people make me and all the other responsible and serious gamers sick with stupid and uncalled for slander. Deal with it and adapt.
Flash	posted 03-24-99 07:09 PM ET LordEmrys-> I hate it when people start blaming the people playing a game for the problems with the game. "YOU'VE BEEN PLAYING IT WRONG. THAT'S WHY IT CRASHED. OF COURSE YOU LOOSE ALL YOUR SAVED GAMES IF YOU CLICK A SWAMP ON TURN 2000. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?" Games crash because of poor programming. Particularly a game like this one that doesn't need to use the most recent advances in VOODOO chips.
Praetor	posted 03-25-99 01:14 AM ET sigh I agree that SMAC is a complicated game to program, simply because of the sheer number of variables that must be handled. However, the way Brian Reynolds talked of this bug about a month ago, made it seem easy, trivial even, to get rid of. He said that he simply "... left it out." In addition, range checking for _all_ units is already in the game. We're not talking about implementing a whole new code here. Now, I do have respect for programmers of any kind of software. Having programmed some nickel and dime stuff before, I do realise that a commercial software release is a _major_ undertaking. And I've given them the highest form of respect I can; I've bought and stuck with their game since day one. But, even the best screw up sometimes. Does that mean we should just overlook it? Are they permitted to be above the law, so to speak, because they've done really good stuff? I personally don't think so. I give respect where it is due, but I also call out any sloppiness.
TheUnforgiven	posted 03-26-99 01:35 PM ET There is range checking with missiles in v3.0 (I've checked, although it is extremly long, the missiles will blow up after they go so far). Flash, how many possible system configurations are they? Billions, if not trillions. It is impossible for a group of programmers to test a game on all of the possible system configs. That is where some of the problems lie, not because of bad programming. That is also where most of their attention lies, getting it working on those systems that are having problems (the K6's now, I think), not fixing some minor range checking bug. Oh, and the latest technology in Voodoo chips is about a year and a half behind the latest technology in the Riva chips.. ;P Gamelion, grow up, there are more people in this world than just you. Just because you're not satisfied w/ how a given point in the game works, then take it back. Don't expect a patch changing it just because YOU want it to be changed. -- TheUnforgiven
oOttOo	posted 03-27-99 01:06 AM ET I have had a small problem with the patch. When "Drone Riots" and "Construction Complete" is announced, and there happens to be more than one announcement at a time, the game kinda slurs them all together. I don't think this was present in the previous patch. I don't say this to be nitpicky, because I can live with it, but in case it's easy to fix, it's something to think about for a future patch. Thanks for a great game!
oOttOo	posted 03-27-99 01:09 AM ET Oh yeah...I was _so_ impressed by the _complete_ overuse of these _lame_ emphasis indicators that I just _had_ to try it myself. Am I _half_ as cool as others that _totally_ run it into the _freaking_ ground?
Corwin	posted 03-27-99 10:58 AM ET Someone said that sometimes the patch wouldn't work if installed over other patches, so you should try to reinstall the game and then install the patch to check if that helps.