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Author Topic:   A few bugs...(Our wish list!)

Victor posted 03-10-99 10:22 PM ET
A few problems/bugs I have noticed:
1 When all the special abilities are acquired, not all are displayed. (This is not due to the type of chassis/weapon, it is the problem of having too many abilities to chose from
2 Should the Voice of Planet be required before Temple of Planets can be constructed?
3 Stop Gravships and 'Copters from stopping in bases: let them pass through them like land units.
4 Make sure that the reports on your income are correct, I have a game going where I am getting twice to three times the amount F3 displays.
5 FTF -- Fix the formers! Let this be a cry of all transcends!
6 Trip computer: make sure units use magtubes all the way if possible.
7 Redo the crosshairs on artillary so that it works correctly.
8 Fix the production queue: Make the object in production the first item on the queue, with a total of 9 queue items.
9 Give artillary an option to fire long-range or like a normal unit.
10 Fix the fighter scrambling: give them a chance to kill the bombers and give them an option to scramble or not.

Any others that are not problems like freezing, continue posting with the numbers 11, 12...
FIRAXIS--Can you tell us which of these will be implemented?
Zoetrope posted 03-11-99 01:52 AM ET
Victor, that's interesting about the number of abilities, because I'd like to have Amphibious Probe teams (spies like James Bond do this all the time). That's probably just an arbitrary `forbidden', but ISTR the problem you describe too, where an ability used to be available but no longer appears. Must investigate this further in case my imagination is playing tricks.
Re VoP and ToP, I think it's more that once you have VoP, you _need_ ToP!
Gravships and Copters are anomalous among _air_ units, because Needlejets know to continue through a city.
I haven't had any units run off a magtube (unlike Civ2's rails), but they certainly run in circles for no purpose.
Yes, the production queue is ergonomically unsound, a wrist sprain waiting to happen.
I think I'll wait until trying version 3.0 before asking Firaxis whether a fix is in.
Thue posted 03-11-99 01:50 PM ET
I totally agree
Thue
Transcent
FTF - FTF - FTF - FTF - FTF - FTF - FTF
JaimeWolf posted 03-11-99 04:46 PM ET
All air units stop in a city _if_ they have less than half their movement points left. It's a feature designed to prevent you from crashing them accidentally.
_Please_ remove this feature ... maybe tell them to stop moving but _don't_ end their turn!
James
Ridcully posted 03-11-99 05:03 PM ET
I think that part of 4. is that the game doesn't correctly display the reduction from Self-Aware Colony. All the screens tell you the unreduced amount, but you actually get the reduced amount.
Dvorak posted 03-11-99 07:58 PM ET
That's not the prob with the wrong income reporting... I have the same thing happen in my current game.
BTW: What's the prob with formers? I play on transcend, but I suppose I haven't been paying close enough attention to them.
Wombat posted 03-11-99 09:23 PM ET
One of the things which may be making your income higher than reported is overproduction. When a colony finishes producing something, only 10 of any excess minerals carry over to the next item, the rest are converted to energy credits. This can be a lot of money if you have lots of colonies.
ViVicdi posted 03-11-99 09:50 PM ET
Victor:
Some of your complaints are the same ones I had before I got some experience playing the game and realized there was a way to do it that I hadn't realized was there. To help you out, here is my take on your bug reports:
1. Use the scroll bar.
2. I don't know.
3. You're close on this one -- a "city stop" for air units is a great feature, but your remaining movement points should be available, so that you can continue movement r (in my case!) attack returning bombers at your discretion. (It was infuriating to send a copter to a base that just got bombed only to find out -- SURPRISE! -- all its remaining movement points are gone!)
4. I haven't played a strategy game yet that got its income report right during its latter stages -- but knowing the exact figure in the endgame is less important, anyway.
5. Impossible. Terraforming is an art. It would take Deep Blue to figure it out.
6. If true, ABSOLUTELY must be fixed.
7. Firaxis already know about that one.
8. Absolutely. MoO 2 did queues right. Firaxis could learn a thing or two in this department.
9. The point of artillery is that it isn't a normal unit. Brush up on your combined arms tactics, and quit complaining
10. Major problem. Fighter-attacking-bomber gets weapon-vs-armor + 100% air superiority bonus. Fighter-scrambling against-bomber gets weapon-vs-weapon. Obviously fighter-attacking-bomber is a turkey shoot and fighter-scrambling-against-bomber is suicidal for even a slightly damaged fighter. THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED! Except in extreme cases fighters should be able to shoot down bombers. At the very least the rules for scrambling vs. attacking need to be the same.
Victor posted 03-11-99 10:13 PM ET
First of all, I think Artillary should be able to attack normally at some penalty, but even using hand guns might be enough, in certain situations. Not a big deal though.
I'll have to check the scroll bar out, and using the arrows, that didn't occur to me before.
The terraforming engine could work like this: If the squre to the bottom is a square in a city radius, go there and improve, building a road, magtube, farm-soil enricher, and a condenser. If not, go to the next sqare, etc. keep searching for sqares to improve, starting with a radius of 1, then 2, etc. How hard would that be?
Also, if nothing else, a unit should disable automation if it passes over the same square twice in the same turn.
--<<[[FTF]]>>-- (Make this the new sign!)
A question: would you consider 2N-3M-3E to be a good square? Guess where I'm coming from with that question.
Where did you find out about the production minerals over 10 becoming credits? That would explain almost everything.
FIRAXIS, want to respond?
kingnurgle posted 03-14-99 03:15 AM ET
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or not..
When moving a unit via mouse, at times it requires you to click a couple times to "order" the unit..
ViVicdi posted 03-15-99 06:32 PM ET
Hmm, 2/3/3 doesn't really stand out as a "normal" terraforming option; there are some combinations involving "specials" that can achieve that combination, or maybe fungus at higher levels.
As for terraforming, getting the trees to grow over your mirrors takes real finesse, a kind of planning that an AI just can't do very well.
Carpe MKarzi posted 03-15-99 07:01 PM ET
Please, please,please let me turn off the Com.
If I'm in agressive, all ber damned and fall before me mood, let me turn off the Comm and not bother with the whiney absurd messages from the so to be fallen.
Dvorak posted 03-15-99 07:48 PM ET
I'll second that request. I have one buggy game as the Gaians where just about EVERY time I click on a unit next to one of Miriam's units, she calls me on the comm to tell me how I'm going to die a painful death.
Dire posted 03-16-99 05:41 AM ET
7 ...especially with the drop unit cursor!
3 This seems to be a mixed bag...I assume you have the option "air units automatically turned off"...It seems to stop sometimes, but also not during others. Perhaps it has something to do with any enemy units near to or adjacent to the base it is entering. One time I entered a base using my copter at two moves. Instead of stopping, it had one move left, and was blinking...an enemy unit was next door, which I attacked and killed with that last move point. However I know that other times air units have stopped with several move points left. Also, I think they always stop when entering an ally base. Can someone confirm, or perhaps read the manual?
Deep Blue posted 03-16-99 02:36 PM ET
>5. Impossible. Terraforming is an art. It would take Deep Blue to figure it out.
ViVicdi
hmm - I'll help if they ask
timbrom posted 03-16-99 05:06 PM ET
Drop units. Except on max zoom in, they often don't land on the targetted square.
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Author	Topic: A few bugs...(Our wish list!)
Victor	posted 03-10-99 10:22 PM ET A few problems/bugs I have noticed: 1 When all the special abilities are acquired, not all are displayed. (This is not due to the type of chassis/weapon, it is the problem of having too many abilities to chose from 2 Should the Voice of Planet be required before Temple of Planets can be constructed? 3 Stop Gravships and 'Copters from stopping in bases: let them pass through them like land units. 4 Make sure that the reports on your income are correct, I have a game going where I am getting twice to three times the amount F3 displays. 5 FTF -- Fix the formers! Let this be a cry of all transcends! 6 Trip computer: make sure units use magtubes all the way if possible. 7 Redo the crosshairs on artillary so that it works correctly. 8 Fix the production queue: Make the object in production the first item on the queue, with a total of 9 queue items. 9 Give artillary an option to fire long-range or like a normal unit. 10 Fix the fighter scrambling: give them a chance to kill the bombers and give them an option to scramble or not. Any others that are not problems like freezing, continue posting with the numbers 11, 12... FIRAXIS--Can you tell us which of these will be implemented?
Zoetrope	posted 03-11-99 01:52 AM ET Victor, that's interesting about the number of abilities, because I'd like to have Amphibious Probe teams (spies like James Bond do this all the time). That's probably just an arbitrary `forbidden', but ISTR the problem you describe too, where an ability used to be available but no longer appears. Must investigate this further in case my imagination is playing tricks. Re VoP and ToP, I think it's more that once you have VoP, you _need_ ToP! Gravships and Copters are anomalous among _air_ units, because Needlejets know to continue through a city. I haven't had any units run off a magtube (unlike Civ2's rails), but they certainly run in circles for no purpose. Yes, the production queue is ergonomically unsound, a wrist sprain waiting to happen. I think I'll wait until trying version 3.0 before asking Firaxis whether a fix is in.
Thue	posted 03-11-99 01:50 PM ET I totally agree Thue Transcent FTF - FTF - FTF - FTF - FTF - FTF - FTF
JaimeWolf	posted 03-11-99 04:46 PM ET All air units stop in a city _if_ they have less than half their movement points left. It's a feature designed to prevent you from crashing them accidentally. _Please_ remove this feature ... maybe tell them to stop moving but _don't_ end their turn! James
Ridcully	posted 03-11-99 05:03 PM ET I think that part of 4. is that the game doesn't correctly display the reduction from Self-Aware Colony. All the screens tell you the unreduced amount, but you actually get the reduced amount.
Dvorak	posted 03-11-99 07:58 PM ET That's not the prob with the wrong income reporting... I have the same thing happen in my current game. BTW: What's the prob with formers? I play on transcend, but I suppose I haven't been paying close enough attention to them.
Wombat	posted 03-11-99 09:23 PM ET One of the things which may be making your income higher than reported is overproduction. When a colony finishes producing something, only 10 of any excess minerals carry over to the next item, the rest are converted to energy credits. This can be a lot of money if you have lots of colonies.
ViVicdi	posted 03-11-99 09:50 PM ET Victor: Some of your complaints are the same ones I had before I got some experience playing the game and realized there was a way to do it that I hadn't realized was there. To help you out, here is my take on your bug reports: 1. Use the scroll bar. 2. I don't know. 3. You're close on this one -- a "city stop" for air units is a great feature, but your remaining movement points should be available, so that you can continue movement r (in my case!) attack returning bombers at your discretion. (It was infuriating to send a copter to a base that just got bombed only to find out -- SURPRISE! -- all its remaining movement points are gone!) 4. I haven't played a strategy game yet that got its income report right during its latter stages -- but knowing the exact figure in the endgame is less important, anyway. 5. Impossible. Terraforming is an art. It would take Deep Blue to figure it out. 6. If true, ABSOLUTELY must be fixed. 7. Firaxis already know about that one. 8. Absolutely. MoO 2 did queues right. Firaxis could learn a thing or two in this department. 9. The point of artillery is that it isn't a normal unit. Brush up on your combined arms tactics, and quit complaining 10. Major problem. Fighter-attacking-bomber gets weapon-vs-armor + 100% air superiority bonus. Fighter-scrambling against-bomber gets weapon-vs-weapon. Obviously fighter-attacking-bomber is a turkey shoot and fighter-scrambling-against-bomber is suicidal for even a slightly damaged fighter. THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED! Except in extreme cases fighters should be able to shoot down bombers. At the very least the rules for scrambling vs. attacking need to be the same.
Victor	posted 03-11-99 10:13 PM ET First of all, I think Artillary should be able to attack normally at some penalty, but even using hand guns might be enough, in certain situations. Not a big deal though. I'll have to check the scroll bar out, and using the arrows, that didn't occur to me before. The terraforming engine could work like this: If the squre to the bottom is a square in a city radius, go there and improve, building a road, magtube, farm-soil enricher, and a condenser. If not, go to the next sqare, etc. keep searching for sqares to improve, starting with a radius of 1, then 2, etc. How hard would that be? Also, if nothing else, a unit should disable automation if it passes over the same square twice in the same turn. --<<[[FTF]]>>-- (Make this the new sign!) A question: would you consider 2N-3M-3E to be a good square? Guess where I'm coming from with that question. Where did you find out about the production minerals over 10 becoming credits? That would explain almost everything. FIRAXIS, want to respond?
kingnurgle	posted 03-14-99 03:15 AM ET I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or not.. When moving a unit via mouse, at times it requires you to click a couple times to "order" the unit..
ViVicdi	posted 03-15-99 06:32 PM ET Hmm, 2/3/3 doesn't really stand out as a "normal" terraforming option; there are some combinations involving "specials" that can achieve that combination, or maybe fungus at higher levels. As for terraforming, getting the trees to grow over your mirrors takes real finesse, a kind of planning that an AI just can't do very well.
Carpe MKarzi	posted 03-15-99 07:01 PM ET Please, please,please let me turn off the Com. If I'm in agressive, all ber damned and fall before me mood, let me turn off the Comm and not bother with the whiney absurd messages from the so to be fallen.
Dvorak	posted 03-15-99 07:48 PM ET I'll second that request. I have one buggy game as the Gaians where just about EVERY time I click on a unit next to one of Miriam's units, she calls me on the comm to tell me how I'm going to die a painful death.
Dire	posted 03-16-99 05:41 AM ET 7 ...especially with the drop unit cursor! 3 This seems to be a mixed bag...I assume you have the option "air units automatically turned off"...It seems to stop sometimes, but also not during others. Perhaps it has something to do with any enemy units near to or adjacent to the base it is entering. One time I entered a base using my copter at two moves. Instead of stopping, it had one move left, and was blinking...an enemy unit was next door, which I attacked and killed with that last move point. However I know that other times air units have stopped with several move points left. Also, I think they always stop when entering an ally base. Can someone confirm, or perhaps read the manual?
Deep Blue	posted 03-16-99 02:36 PM ET >5. Impossible. Terraforming is an art. It would take Deep Blue to figure it out. ViVicdi hmm - I'll help if they ask
timbrom	posted 03-16-99 05:06 PM ET Drop units. Except on max zoom in, they often don't land on the targetted square.